What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Discuss the techniques, the psycho-physiological aspects of adrenalized combat, role-playing or scenario-based training, and the regimen of preparation for reality based self-defense (RBSD)...

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What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby San Soo Sifu » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:33 pm

Mike McLaughlin wrote:WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN KUNG FU SAN SOO & KRAV MAGA?

May 26, 2011 | By Mike McLaughlin

Krav maga and kung fu san soo are fighting styles that can teach you how to physically protect yourself, even against a larger attacker or multiple attackers. Both have long histories, but despite the similarities, krav maga and kung fu san soo rely on different approaches to teach you self-defense.


KRAV MAGA HISTORY

Krav maga was founded by Imrich Lichtenfield, who was born in Hungary in 1910 and was a successful wrestler in Europe in the early 1900s. He conceived krav maga while fighting with other young Jewish men to protect the Jewish community from anti-Semitic attacks. After Lichtenfield moved to Israel in 1942, he began teaching fighting skills to a paramilitary group that protected Jewish families. In 1948, the United Nations granted statehood to Israel and an Israeli army was formed. Lichtenfield trained Israeli soldiers in his face-to-face combat system. The first civilian krav maga course was offered in 1972.


KUNG FU SAN SOO HISTORY

Grandmaster Jimmy H. Woo, whose real name is Chin Siu Dek, brought kung fu san soo to the United States in the 1930s. The style was passed down through several generations in his family. Woo's great-great-great grandfather learned the style's fighting techniques at the Kwan-Yin Monastery in southern China. Chinese monks perfected fighting techniques so that they could defend themselves against bandits. When Woo's ancestor left the monastery, he took two Buddhist training books with him and the books have remained in his family for five generations. Kung fu san soo techniques come from the pages of these texts.


KRAV MAGA TECHNIQUES

According to the Krav Maga Federation website, students learn "hardcore self-defense techniques." If you sign up for a krav maga class, you learn how to defend yourself against a single attacker or multiple attackers. In addition, you learn how to fight attackers who are armed with guns, knives or sticks. Krav maga also teaches you how to quickly strike vulnerable points on an assailant's body. Realistic scenarios frequently are practiced in classes. Krav maga does not teach katas, or forms, which are the choreographed routines seen in many traditional martial arts.


KUNG FU SAN SOO TECHNIQUES

Kung fu san soo also teaches practical self-defense techniques against a variety of attacks. Unlike krav maga's linear blocks and strikes, kung fu san soo's techniques often are circular. Kung Fu San Soo Diamond Bar says its style "incorporates principles of leverage and movement, as well as proper breathing and concentration to create a powerful and effective fighter." Techniques are based on scientific principles of physics. In a kung fu san soo class, you learn an art with a long history of traditional techniques.


REFERENCES

Krav Maga Federation: Krav Maga - Biographies
Krav Maga Worldwide: Self Defense
Kung Fu San Soo Diamond Bar: What is San Soo?
Grandmaster Jimmy H. Woo Kung Fu San Soo Associates: Kung Fu San Soo
Dave Hopkins Kung Fu San Soo Association: The History

Article reviewed by Shawn Candela Last updated on: May 26, 2011

http://www.livestrong.com/article/34844 ... krav-maga/
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Kung-Fu San Soo versus Krav Maga

Postby Ron G » Tue May 26, 2015 1:40 am

Krav Maga appears to be a good Art, it is similar to San Soo in many ways. It is violent, quick, powerful, it finishes, has some variety however there are a few things that I disagree with. Just as in the 1970's when Karate schools scratched Karate off their signs and painted Kung Fu school because it was new and trendy and made more money for the instructor. This is what I see in Krav Maga today, it is the new kid on the block. Some of our San Soo schools are doing the same today, they go to seminars to get a quick belt or certificate, they can hardly wait to give Krav Maga top billing and San Soo second. I have to ask WHY, do you really think it is better? It will probably put more money in your pocket but it is quite foolish, if you really think it is better tells me you do not really understand San Soo. I have watched the Art demonstrated many times and have seen almost nothing that I have not learned in San Soo, we do it smoother on a higher level. My points of contention are they are very liner lacking much triangulation. They strike the same target 3 or 4 times in a row which makes little sense because when a man is struck his hands move to that area which may interfere with the second or third attempt. To attempt 3 knees to the groin causes the man to bend, again blocking the second attempt, would not a strike or knee to the upper torso be better? ALL of your striking training has been triangler, designed to open a new target from the last strike. This could be discussed more in depth but I think you will understand.
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San Soo vs. Krav Maga

Postby Ron G » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:47 am

Well, I see SSS found my earlier post which covers some of this, I knew I wrote it somewhere but I looked and did not find it so I posted it here. Since one of these guys is currently advertising a seminar I will leave this up, sorry if there is an overlap. It really does bother me to see these instructors belittle our Art, I would say don't waste your time or money, "OH, but wait" maybe you could be certified!

I see that a few of Kung-Fu San Soo instructors now favor Krav Maga over the San Soo that was taught by Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo. They brag it up when they are going to teach the class as the superior Art. It is not a bad Art, somewhat linear, and more Karate like. When I see these guy's brag I have to wonder how smart they are, or if they did not learn the Art we learned. I break down all Arts that I can find to see both strengths and weaknesses. I would like to ask them one question, "Is there anything in that Art that we have not learned in San Soo?" I don't think so; if you have it, I would like to see it. I can't say I have seen every single move, but everything I saw, I have learned. I believe our delivery is smoother, and more fluid. We don't hit, strike, knee, or kick the same target 3 or 4 times in a row. We were taught triangle target acquisition to set up the next attack point. Just my simple view.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby San Soo Sifu » Fri May 06, 2016 6:44 pm

I really like some of Krav Maga training drills. In fact, I steal many of them, and pass them off as my own! :mrgreen:

However, my biggest complaint regarding Krav Maga is the insistence on striking the same target 2, 3, or 4 times in a row. That's just not effective nor efficient.

Anyone, including untrained slobs, are going to cover the target area for one of two reasons... 1. Hands go to pain (if target successfully struck); or... 2. Hands cover to protect (if target unsuccessfully struck).
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Fri May 06, 2016 10:05 pm

Using others drills is great, they really belong to no particular art, I have used what I saw and some I created. I was amazed when I saw that most only knew one or two ways to get out of a specific hold, why not 20 or 30. We worked on drills that gave them more, all while under attack or from the ground. We added sticking hands while blind folded, getting up from the ground while under attack by three guys, kick fighting with your arms tied behind your back and many more, you need to stay creative.
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Hard to Believe!!!

Postby Ron G » Thu May 26, 2016 2:53 pm

San Soo is a great Art however many do not understand it's concepts. Then they teach ridiculous techniques and movements that have no relevance to real combat even fake combat.
First look at these clips, would you believe that this school was proud enough to post them on their website.
https://www.facebook.com/sansootulsa/vi ... 077231688/
https://www.facebook.com/sansootulsa/vi ... =2&theater
It is hard to believe that this Krav Maga seminar was held for 3 days at what I think was a $400+ cost and this is a shining example of what they learned.
First most of the people who are making Masters by mail are taking money and giving little (real San Soo as taught by Jimmy) in return to people who don't know any better. They should be ashamed to take their money. Awhile ago I called this school and left a message that much was misunderstood and I would try to help them by phone but they never called back.
The San Soo Master who put on the seminar kept commenting on how much was learned, please show me where.
Anyone who thinks Krav Maga is better than San Soo does not understand San Soo. We are smoother and have better delivery, I ask you to prove me wrong by showing anything in Krav that we have not learned in San Soo.
Shame both of you, you do not honor our Grand Master Jimmy H Woo.
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Re: Hard to Believe!!!

Postby bigpappa » Fri May 27, 2016 2:24 pm

One big difference is Krav has incorporated a lot of BJJ into their style. Some San Soo guys have done so as well, but then it's not really San Soo anymore....

I know a couple of LA County Sheriffs who learned Krav Maga in the academy. They view it as basically worthless, although I would also suspect that nobody can be truly proficient in anything after only practicing for a couple of months.

I've seen some videos of the Israeli military practicing Krav Maga, and they seem much more effective with their abilities. I would think this have everything to do with their mindset and the fact that their lives might truly depend on it on a daily basis, not to mention they probably train a lot more on a regular basis.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Fri May 27, 2016 10:01 pm

Krav Maga is not a a bad Art, it could be better compared to our Old San Soo, our delivery was more roundhouse as theirs is more straight line.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Sat May 28, 2016 11:05 am

The real reason of the post is not to rag on these guys but I feel sorry for them, they paid good money to learn our Art and they got garbage. How much money would they have paid to get to Master level through the mail. Then their instructor has them so convinced that they know something they post this inferior stuff on the web calling it San Soo so when real fighters see it they consider San Soo a Joke.
I am embarrassed by when I see them strut before the camera showing what the believe is our Art. Then the next instructor goes to Tulsa to teach them "nick nack pattywack pat them on the head", go figure.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby San Soo Sifu » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:59 pm

Ryan Spink wrote:San Soo and Krav Maga

I was recently asked to clarify the differences between San Soo and Krav Maga. The question a raises because at a superficial gance both systems seem to be extremely similar, if not identical in nature. To further compound the issue, written information about either system does little to articulate the differences between the systems. So it is understandable that even experienced martial artists will mistakenly assume both systems are saimilar; however, there is a vast difference between San Soo and Krav Maga. The truth is they are completely different in regards to methods of training, instruction, and organization.

The purpose of this post is to accurately and definitively delineate the nuances between San Soo and Krav Maga. The intent of this post is NOT to elvate one system above the other or to make any claims regarding the superiority of San Soo or Krave Maga; rather, it is the aim of this post to point out to the reader the uniqueness of each system so as to expand one's understanding and deepen one's appreciation for each system individually. It is important to mention that the views expressed in this article are based upon the experiences of the author who has studied and trained in both San Soo and Krav Maga, providing a unique perspective as a practitioner and instructor of both systems.

Let us begin by addressing the apparent similarities between San Soo and Krav Maga, than we can plunge deeper into the differences that set these two systems of combat apart from each other.

(1) The obvious commonality these system share is they are both eclectic systems of combat.

(2) Both San Soo and Krav Maga strive to teach students the most effective methods of defending oneself against a stronger, larger and more aggressive attacker.

(3) Unlike other martial arts which integrate competition into their training, both San Soo and Krav Maga have zealously resisted this trend.

(4) San Soo and Krav Maga are marketed as practical and effective methods of self defense that deal with the physical and psychological realities of violence.

(5) Political drama and the lack of a strong centralized leadership has plagued both systems leading to every growing disparity in the quality of instruction from school to school.

Now let us examine and contrast the unique characteristics of each system that set them apart from each other.

(1) San Soo is an ancient Chinese system of Kung Fu, developed hundreds of years ago and therefore has a Chinese flavor do to the influence of Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, and Chinese medicine upon its traditions.
Krav Maga on the other hand is a modern combat system officially established in 1948. The system was developed by soldiers for soldiers to survive the harsh realities of the battlefield. In the 1960s it was adapted to the needs of civilians and law enforcement. It has a unique Jewish and militaristic flavor to its traditions as a result of its origin of birth.
When comparing and contrasting San Soo and Krav Maga, one cannot ignore the profound impact culture has had on shaping the development and evolution of these two systems. The identity of a combat system is linked to its culture of origin, to separate the system from its culture is to destroy its essence; to ignore it, is failure to see its uniqueness.

(2) As stated earlier, both San Soo and Krav Maga aim to teach students to effectively defend themselves against an attacker that is larger, stronger, and more aggressive. However, Krav Maga aims at accomplishing this within a limited amount of time, or to put it as Kravist say, "the aim of Krav Maga is to reach a high level of self defense proficiency in a relatively short period of time." The reason for this is, if you remember, Krav Maga was originally developed by soldiers for soldiers. A soldier has a tightly prescribed amount of time in which he or she must be trained and made ready before being deployed to the battlefield where they will be counted on to achieve victory. It is this aspect above all others, in the author's opinion, that defines the differences between San Soo and Krav Maga. Let us explore this particular dichotomy in greater detail.
San Soo is a style of Chinese Kung Fu. The term Kung Fu is actually a misnomer for the Chinese martial arts which are properly called Wushu. How Chinese martial arts came to be known as Kung Fu here in the west is easy to explain once you understand the meaning of the term Kung Fu. In Chinese any skill which requires a great deal of time and effort to aquire is called Kung Fu. For example a concert pianist would say, "playing the piano is my Kung Fu." By definition Kung Fu cannot be acquired in a relatively short amount of time. As masters of the Chinese martial arts say, "it takes half a lifetime just to learn one style of Chinese fighting and lifetime of dedication to master it." So it is totally understandable that when Chinese workers on their way to work in the early hours of the morning saw people in the park practicing martial arts they naturally called them "kung fu people." It makes sense because after all what is a better personification of the term Kung Fu than a person dedicated to mastering a style of Chinese martial arts through daily practice.
San Soo is a Chinese system of combat, more importantly it is a form of Kung Fu, therefore cannot be properly taught and mastered in a short period of time. As a form of Kung Fu the system of San Soo requires a student to make a lifetime commitment to learning and mastering new skills, redefining their limits and then doing it all over again.
To review, the second major difference between San Soo and Krav Maga is in regards to the required period of time dedicated to study and training. Krav Maga aims to accomplish the highest level of self defense proficiency in a prescribed period of time, and is willing to accept the variations in skill levels as a necessary reality of not having 5 to 10 years to train a person. On the other hand, San Soo recognises that a highly proficient level of skill is not something one can aquire in only a few months and is unwilling to compromise level of skill with a shorter training period.

(3) The last difference I wish to discuss in this article focuses on each systems corpus of combat knowledge and how the curriculum has evolved. While both systems are eclectic in origin, they have evolved in completely different ways. San Soo has taken a universal approach integrating every imaginable strategy or technique. It has incorporated hard and soft elements from both northern and southern Chinese fighting systems as well as adding grappling from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and weapon techniques from the Filipino Martial Arts; although some San Soo schools have resisted these last additions, choosing instead to follow a later form of the system. Regardless, you often hear San Soo practitioners say, "it's all San Soo" when commenting on other systems, demonstrating the philosophy that San Soo incorporates elements from every style of combat to some degree or another. One could say the maxim of San Soo is "More is Better." If that is the case than the maxim for Krav Maga is, "Less is More."

Because Krav Maga is intensely focused on optimizing training time in order to achieve the best results its parameters for integrating new information into the system are extremely controlled and more stringent than those of San Soo. A good example of this would be to compare the weapons arsenal of both systems. San Soo easily contains over a hundred weapons within its curriculum containing both traditional and modern weapons; organized according to long or short, flexible or rigid, blunt or sharp. Krav Maga on the other hand is much more pragmatic, limiting the number of weapons considerably to only those weapons one is likely to encounter on the modern battlefield or city streets. So while San Soo students would argue the benefits of training with double hook swords, Krav Maga students would view such training as a waste of time.

So who is right and who is wrong? Which of these two combat systems is the best? Which system should you learn? As I stated earlier, these questions are beyond the scope of this post; which set out to discuss the major differences between San Soo and Krav Maga. While there are many more differences we could discuss, I believe that I have covered the most important ones.

I am sure that there will be at least a few readers who after reading this post will feel dissatisfied because I have failed to provide answers as to which system is superior. Let me be clear, I have not failed because I haven't even tried. To those readers let me offer these final thoughts as consolation; why does one system have to be superior? For me it's like trying to choose between the prime rib and the New York steak, both are meat, both are delicious, and both can be screwed up by a cook that doesn't know what he is doing. My point is, why force yourself to choose between them, study them both. I can tell you from personal experience that both systems have helped to improve my skills exponentially as a martial artist and instructor; not to mention the people I have met and the friendships I have formed as a result of training in both systems. As an instructor knowing San Soo and Krav Maga I have been able to take advantage of unique and profitable business opportunities that I would have missed out on had I only known one system. I think there is much to be gained from studying both systems but of course as always this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:03 am

Ken Winegarner wrote:Ok... First... Let me state that this is a very good thread and well thought out and crafted... And... I agree with most of it, and only find, in my opinion, a few things to only add... That's it... And... Not to upset anyone as this is just my opinion and that's all that it is, nothing more or less. I agree that to the untrained eye, in regards to one that simply does not know martial arts, to visually see the differences would be difficult... But... My opinion, anyone with pure self defense knowledge or CQC knowledge would see major differences... I believe San Soo is more of a traditional martial art in the sense of how Jimmy brought it too us and how it has been taught...there are some aspects of tradition still taught in regards to San Soo that resemble traditional martial arts... Also... The way in which San Soo is taught you will learn then quickly, yet due to the nature of it and it's blending of both pure self defense and traditional beliefs this makes it as a whole more difficult to learn quickly as it is rooted in tradition... Krav, as Ryan stated, was created to be a self defense where one had to learn as quickly as possible in how not to die... Now... San Soo, to me again, is more "brutal" in it's application... I had a few conversations with Jimmy about this... I believe, due to when San Soo was created, due to the more archaic weapons used at that time, it had to be more brutal. Yet, the moves also lend themselves to more than less... Meaning... Lessons in San Soo are longer and more intricate, almost border flashy and unusable... Where Krav... Is to the point, quick, with intentions of inflicting as much pain in as quickly as one can... There's no flashy grabbing and twisting and spinning and dropping and stuff like that... Also... The one thing that bothered me about San Soo was it's flaws in execution, this will ruffle some feathers, it renders itself to a point like Tae Kwon Do or other tradition arts where one opponent throws a "style pacific" punch or kick only seen in that type of traditional martial art...this must be changed... And... Unfortunately I see a lot of schools using "bolt on" type training rather than learning how to properly blend such aspects into their training... Example... I see a lot of people gravitating towards "boxing mitts" "muay thai pads" and the like and putting together combinations without proper training and then passing it off... This is dangerous... So... In short... San Soo is more brutal, yet it's execution is flawed, how it's delivered... It works well against "like" opponents, like Tae Kwon Do, but outside of this it needs vast improvements... Krav is not as brutal, but the emphasis is more on quick response while inflicting as much pain as possible... So... The choice to me was easy... Do them both, but, learn and put in the time and effort to do them, execute them properly... Use the body as it was meant to me used...

----------

To add... As i "hit" the "return" and it posted ... so... I believe that one has to be true to themselves... Pick what they like and believe in and work with that... I went out and put in the effort and learned properly how to punch and kick, then, I implemented that into my San Soo training... This, for me, made it very effective... Not a "bolt on" system, but a "systems theory" system...So... I loved the brutality of San Soo, nothing like it, and the quickness and simplicity of Krav. And... For me... The two together answered my personal questions that I had... So... What are your questions? Discover what they are, then answer them...
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Matt » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:05 pm

I know I'm bringing up lots of old threads here. I've thought about this scenario and wanted to post my two cents. Krav Maga in my opinion lacks the precision focus that San soo develops. Instead of flurry of punches. Also it's missing the attack portion. To develop not waiting for the punch to be thrown but see it's going to a fight situation and explode in that small moment.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby bigpappa » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:09 pm

I think Krav and San Soo are extremely similar in that both focus on defending one's life (in their original incarnation), training people how to fight in a very short amount of time, and have a no holds barred approach to self defense.

Krav was more oriented towards the military, which requires that troops are required to learn how to fight and take lives in an extremely short period of time. They don't have the luxury of spending years perfecting forms and techniques before they are able to apply them in a life or death scenario.

Jimmy wanted to teach people how to fight, and teach them rather quickly compared to normal martial arts instruction standards of the time. He had a lot of reasons for doing so, but the end result was he had a bunch of rough and tough guys who could handle themselves on the street in a relatively short amount of time.

Because Krav was created by blending multiple styles to form one, and by discarding elements of each style that was deemed inefficient, it lacks some of the deeper core concepts, mechanics, and methods of the parent arts. Conversely, it is always evolving and changing as it continues to incorporate parts of other arts (such as BJJ) into its curriculum, and has dropped off some of the older self defense techniques that were used when it was first created.

Because of the nature of that art, I would say that it doesn't have a "soul." Its just pure methods of combat, and will always continue to change and evolve based on advancements in fight science and popularity of certain styles.

San Soo is in a weird position, because its own history and lineage is convoluted, yet struggles to maintain the history and integrity of the art. Some have gone the way of Krav Maga, and have added to the art by borrowing from other disciplines, while others try to teach the "way Jimmy used to do it." Traditional Chinese martial artists/styles/masters often don't accept San Soo as a traditional Chinese martial art, however, due to our spotty history, lineage, karate uniforms and belts, clumsy weapon handling/forms, and lack of overall TCMA appearance which makes things interesting because the San Soo community often tries so hard and wants so badly to be accepted as a TCMA, but most often are not.

No one can deny, however, that San Soo is a very effective fighting art, and Jimmy certainly understood the nature of combat on an extremely high level. He was far ahead of his time in his approach to combat, or perhaps he reached back into history and brought back the old way of doing things that the great armies of the past used to train their troops in hand to hand combat in short periods of time.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Matt » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:47 pm

Nice, I like your writing style BigPappa. Let's see if I can convey what I am thinking. The focus I am talking about is the dime size target focus in the moment. The laser beam focus when you pick a target you want to hit then after you do everything goes wide till you pick your next target. Bruce has a saying in class that you "dehumanize" your opponent. Where with San Soo we do it healthy by using targets to achieve that instead of getting pumped up by anger or what have you. Like as an example I would need to get hit a time or two when I was younger to get pissed off to engage in the fight not the case anymore. You go to a cold blooded place immediately and dehumanize your opponent by viewing him as a spleen or heart etc. This psychology of fighting in San soo is the part I feel Jimmy was really teaching by going slow and visualizing targets. I think we compare apples and oranges when it comes to sports and defense. A lot of the times in the street fights we let the bully close the distance for use, so we may not need to get " inside" to strike. Just strike first, hard, accurate, with 100% intention. If I am in a fight with a mma dude and have to take the space that can be problematic. Bigger stronger faster becomes the issue, I'll fight east if he's west and go for the best. Wow I got off topic lol. My writing style is crazy to say the least. Back to the topic- from what I see on YouTube the closer you get to the beginning source the KravMaga the more precise the movements, the same can be said about a lot of San soo on YouTube. In my opinion I still think KravMaga is missing the precise movements and are in a way generalized with where the strike too. But I am bias I'm sure. It's a good art along with boxing and bjj. It really comes down to , how good is yours and how much you practice and think about it on the daily. I like the depth of San soo cause I don't get bored and there is always something to work on fast, slow or on your own but now I am making generalizations lol.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby bigpappa » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:58 pm

I'm not sure on that, as I haven't personally trained Krav. I used to know someone who was a Krav instructor, but I haven't talked to him for a few years and can't easily ask how they focus on targets.

I will suggest this, though, that there are essentially two versions of Krav being taught: the version found at a gym catering to civilians near you, and the one taught to the Israeli Military within the Israeli Military.

I would suspect that there are different approaches to the training, as they have different needs. I also know there are different Federations, and they have different techniques. Someone with more knowledge of the specific techniques taught and used would have to chime in to really settle the question.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:59 pm

Wouldn't it be wise to discuss how San Soo focuses on targets, how do you triangulate stepping, punches, throws; can anyone verbalize so those who don't understand, may understand. So much time is wasted on other systems while few really understand their own. There is seldom real questions asked about San Soo. Just look at the BS videos and tell me do those idiots understand San Soo, it is embarrassing.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby San Soo Sifu » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:35 pm

Ron G wrote:Wouldn't it be wise to discuss how San Soo focuses on targets, how do you triangulate stepping, punches, throws; can anyone verbalize so those who don't understand, may understand.


Here is an entire thread devoted to the triangle...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=238
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:21 pm

Yes, it has been discussed; but that is not my point, the lower black belts (or lower) are all over the place, attempting to break down every art going -- BEFORE breaking down there own Art! I reread some of the ideas on Krav Maga application/training which I disagree, I see little that we do not do in San Soo, and we are smoother. Here is a big difference, if you fight as you train, your knowledge will remain static. Jimmy said, "you must use your own element, you can't be me, and I can't be you." You cannot fight with lessons, just because your partner throws the same punches you should create punches from all angles, tell him to throw all angles with speed (using some caution) if you think you can handle it have them hit at you (maybe use a glove). There are two types of Masters, those who have never fought and over the years made up moves that may or may not work. Some fight often, evaluating what worked best and how to make it better. These may be cops, bouncers, military veterans, or just punks who like to beat up people. Most important in a fight is how you use your mind then your body. From what I see with Krav Maga, I see no reason to study it, to learn the difference, your mind and eyes should be able to see it too.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Matt » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:22 pm

I went back thru and read the thread on angles. It's mind boggling to say the least and I kept going back to the simplistic thought of yes, when I do a walk thru technique or blast thru an opponent, when I place my foot down between his legs I visualize the point of the triangle behind him. Or when take downs with the arm you are going for the triangle point behind him also. I can see these triangles in the simplistic sense. I was wondering the same things on triangles a while back, like that triangle can be used as a way to get inside on the attack fast and efficient? Now I'm not sure that I have the right wording for what I am really trying to ask. I understand that attacking on the 45 gets the head offline and allows you to advance at the same time. But I am thinking is there more to that first movement with triangles involved?

I agree that we should spend time on this art. If I come up with good questions or explain something in a way, that in return will help me better understand the art for myself.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:11 pm

Matt,
Jimmy told us once maybe more he tended to strike in triangles, break down the 45 (get a good set, many are wrong), then watch the patterns. I will lay out a few, it may have been already addressed as I did not read it all. liver/spleen/temple, L side of neck/right side of neck/ groin, temple/temple/\throat etc. Now change the angle from the side to almost straight up, near kidney/spleen/base of skull (could also be a right backhand to nose), or through the middle of the body, near kidney/spleen/far kidney. Make sense?
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Dedicated Villain » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:40 pm

Krav Maga has to be one of the biggest pop martial arts scams out there. When your whole art is based off of groin strikes and eye pokes with MMA-Lite training you know something isn't right.

Why not just train in Jim Grover combatives? Best for self defense without having traditional techniques/forms.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby bigpappa » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:12 pm

I would disagree with that last statement, villain. The true Krav Maga practiced by the military had been tried and tested in the West Bank, Lebanon, etc.

I'm not talking about a Krav Maga school in a strip mall, next to a Starbucks.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Matt » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:10 am

Ron,
Yes I understand. That makes sense of strike no triangles and stepping thru your opponent, into them. I think where I was going with that question is really just, not getting ready to fight. Just fight. Any sort of studder step, cross your body block etc. can be thought of as getting ready to fight. Even in mental awareness.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:24 am

Fight with no thought, program your subconscious to react, then trust it when a fight comes to action. JHW "let your mind use your body".
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby bigpappa » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:20 am

A square defense defeats a triangle offense, which is why TCMA stresses the horse stance and rarely talks about the other stances. Learning to fight and move with the horse stance will overcome the triangular principles.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby bigpappa » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:25 am

That's why the wing chun and Jkd guys have all gotten DESTROYED in the early days of no rules MMA fights. Their centerline theory relies heavily on the triangle, and they got annhilated quickly.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Tue May 02, 2017 12:13 am

Pappa,
Could you explain what you are saying about horse stance opposed to triangle attack, horse stance is a triangle. The whole art is a triangle, I do not understand what you are comparing.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby bigpappa » Tue May 02, 2017 8:57 am

Disregard my previous posts. I was confusing basketball tactics with fighting. A square defense is the answer to the triangle offense, as used by Phil Jackson.
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Tue May 02, 2017 10:10 am

Wow, what a fight that would be if he dribbled the San Soo guy down the court. heh heh
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby Ron G » Wed May 03, 2017 12:25 am

Pappa, We have all posted things we wished we had not but on the lighter side I just have to ask, was it "Old" basketball or "New" basketball. heh heh
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Re: What is the difference in Kung-Fu San Soo & Krav Maga?

Postby bigpappa » Wed May 03, 2017 4:22 pm

I think some of the fundamental differences of the new school of basketball directly contributed to the failings of the USA Olympic team losing back in 2004, and struggling in other Olympics as well. There are a lot of reasons, but you can't overlook the lack of defense, the strong fundamentals of the other country's players, and declining talent of our team.
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