You tend to fight like you TRAIN, some video evidence...

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You tend to fight like you TRAIN, some video evidence...

Postby Captain America » Thu May 25, 2017 12:44 pm


Since The Captain obviously loves to hear himself talk, I am reposting a portion of another post I made in this 2.0 thread.
The following YouTube link provides some real world evidence that backs up some of what I wrote below back in 2014. The video link is worth following and taking a serious look-see:

Warning: If you do another martial art there is a tendency to do that martial art.

Since San Soo 2.0 is the hot topic at the moment, with its predilection for grappling, let’s use grappling as an example…

From fellow San Soo students at TMI as well as a few acquaintances from other San Soo schools who have explored grappling is the following minor example of the above “warning.”

When one gets interested in grappling and playing/competing with it, there is a natural tendency, it seems, to add it to a San Soo workout. Not in the sense of “in addition to” as in a boxing class separate from the San Soo training, but using grappling while practicing San Soo fighting. Students would have a tendency to get the San Soo takedown and then grapple for a time to finish the encounter.

Over and over again. The danger here is that when a real street fight occurs, you probably will spend time needlessly grappling and expending valuable energy even when you have an opportunity to incapacitate the bad guy with strikes, for example.

The bad guy in the street is not an opponent, and even referring to him as an opponent belies one’s mindset. He is someone who may be trying to kill you, rape and/or kill your woman, or your kids. He may be doing a home invasion, or trying to kill you on the street.

Absolutely, he is NOT AN OPPONENT!!! Competition mindset is not better than lethal combat mindset in those circumstances. Almost always in the ring you do not actively fear for your life or try to take the opponents life. Even when there is a chance of very serious injury or death. Boxers and UFC opponents often hug/shake hands/ or show some other form of mutual respect after the competition.

So when you practice competition fighting techniques or techniques with an almost exclusively competitive mindset (for example, the grappling portion of the practice mentioned above) you may get yourself in trouble when the real deal occurs. Remember deliberate conscious thought and reasoning usually takes second place to trained response when under the great stress of life and death battle. You trained to grapple maybe too much and now you may find yourself in a piss poor circumstance.

What is one of the possible solutions to this potential problem? Actually we can look to Bill Vigil who actually has a really good video clip on YouTube wherein he shows and teaches to maul a grappler… biting, clawing eyes, etc. This is an excellent mindset/technique approach. You use just enough grappling to get into a position to seriously hurt the bad guy with clawing, biting, strikes, whatever.

So while practicing San Soo, you will be better programmed for a real fight if you in fact, practice San Soo. Set aside the competitive angle of your training for a different time.

Looking at the converse, if you are training for an MMA competition, you should not practice mixing San Soo into that training. Small joint manipulations such as breaking fingers, or biting, eye gouging, kicking while opponent is down, knee to groin, etc., are all illegal. If you practiced MMA with Vigil’s (Jimmy’s) mauling mixed in, it could unthinkingly be used during the heat of competition and you would be disqualified. Practice MMA and other stuff like that separately from your San Soo.

Okay the above is my MINOR objection.

Now for a MAJOR potential problem:

Robert taught Border Patrol Agents a “Defensive Tactics” class for a year and a half back in 1999 and 2000 a couple of times per month at the Training Facility in El Cajon, at the San Diego Sector.

A Border Patrol Agent’s standard armament was a sidearm, a folding edge weapon, expandable baton, pepper spray.

Law Enforcement carries weapons in part to keep themselves alive. Robert’s instruction would include some ground principles during the last part of the Defensive Tactics class. He would make the point that you don’t have to be a better fighter or a better grappler… you just had to know enough and have the ability to access a weapon to greatly increase your odds of going home. Which was a definite theme of the overall instruction.

I went down to one of the all-day classes in 2000 when Robert was still a young 51 years old. During the ground portion of the instruction Robert picked one of the bigger Agents who said he practiced Ju Jitsu. Robert had been showing weapon retention and accessing a weapon both standing up and on the ground. He (Robert) was wearing a “red” gun (practice weapon) and folding edge weapon (a real one, but he never used it in these drills) on his right side… he was playing the role of an Agent.

He was on his back and invited the real Agent to take the mounted position.

Now remember, this was an experienced real life Law Enforcement individual, young and strong who practiced Ju Jitsu. He said he practiced Ju Jitsu and when he applied his submission move he looked very smooth, so I believed him.

(Note: Border Patrol Agents probably put hands on folks more than any other Law Enforcement Agency.)

He knows Robert is “armed,” he is an experienced Agent.

There was no way, in reason, that Robert, being older and overweight, could reasonably be expected to be victorious.

In fact, Robert lost the grappling portion of the encounter.

Here is what happened.
Robert on his back. The Agent takes the mount. That was the scenario. As soon as the Agent had the mount position Robert started “resisting” the Agent’s closing in looking for a hold. Robert pushed up and extended his left arm putting himself into the classic position of losing to an armbar.

Like I said, the Agent real smoothly and efficiently transitioned to the “Japanese” arm bar on Robert’s left arm.
Thus winning the grappling “contest.”

Then Robert seriously wounded or killed the Agent.

While manoeuvring for a couple of seconds and then extending his left arm, Robert was betting on his knowledge of sport training programming and was, in fact, counting on the Agent to go for the arm bar. Which the real Agent did. During that sequence, Robert was accessing his sidearm and as the arm bar was being applied, emptied the clip into the “bad guy.” If he couldn’t access the gun maybe he would get to his edged weapon, and start slicing and dicing whatever he could reach.

As an aside, it was taught that if you feel a lot of pain you can usually continue to fight. When you become “one with the pain,” then that’s generally a wrap. Think tapping out when an arm bar hurts. Do you think if you had the wherewithal to tap you could try to shoot a gun with that same hand if your life depended on it. I think, yes.

The Agent/bad guy was so into his Ju Jitsu, and because that was how he trained, he automatically went for the arm bar, in spite of being a trained United States Border Patrol Agent knowing the seriousness of an armed opponent.

Robert made the comment “I get a cast… and you get a casket.”

He demonstrated and made the point among others (such as being cognizant of weapons) that this is not a competition, and even with a real LEO background that falling into that trap of fighting like you practice was a real possibility. And if he were to apply the arm bar on the job, he darn well better take a quick moment and kick the guy in the skull if possible when he had the arm bar. Especially since out in the field you may not know if the bad guy has a weapon or not. In this case he KNEW Robert had multiple weapons, but made a poor judgement call, even with the only mild stressor present being performing in front of the class. And he might have thought Robert was physically more capable than he really was (very likely, I think… funny… no offense little buddy, but that’s funny). Sort of a Jedi mind trick element in the mix…
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