Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Check out some of these...

Moderator: San Soo Sifu

Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Mon May 22, 2017 5:17 pm

This should breath some life back into the forum :D
https://youtu.be/_vYdNdV1pXg
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Dedicated Villain » Tue May 23, 2017 12:54 am

Thanks, about to watch now.
User avatar
Dedicated Villain
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:55 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Dedicated Villain » Tue May 23, 2017 1:44 am

Interesting vid. Some San Soo peeps might find it offensive. Personally just from observing YouTube vids and reading Real Kung Fu by Frank Woolsey I also feel Old San Soo is more dangerous. Therefore making it more effective.
User avatar
Dedicated Villain
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:55 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby bigpappa » Tue May 23, 2017 11:56 am

Couple of questions:

It was mentioned that he would take some heat for some of his statements, but comments are closed on the video, so how can people give him some heat?

By exercise sets, do you mean techniques, or actual exercises such as blocking or punching drills? A short time later techniques was used in conjunction with exercises, so I was just wondering.

Who is still teaching the old way in a studio as mentioned, but not mentioned by name?
bigpappa
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 23, 2017 12:10 pm

I think he meant Master Bill Hulsey is one of the few who teach Old San Soo curriculum in a public school, for profit, setting.
Hit First...Hit Hard...Hit Often...and Finish Him Off!
User avatar
San Soo Sifu
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:44 pm
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Tue May 23, 2017 12:58 pm

Hello. Thanks for checking out the video Dedicated Villain. Great questions Bigpappa! Yes, San Soo Sifu is correct, I was referring to Master Bill Hulsey. As for closing the comments on the YouTube page there are some reasons for that. I have recently learned everyone on the internet is an expert.....at everything :) Trolls, people looking to start a flame war or fight. All of these reasons are valid. Unlike Youtube, this forum is monitored and full of people who are actually experts (As opposed to all those experts on Youtube who leave comments and have a channel with no content of their own :) ) By exercise sets I am referring to actual technique sets (Two man sets) not drills of any kind.
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby bigpappa » Tue May 23, 2017 1:33 pm

Thank you for the reply. I did think of Hulsey right away, but wasn't sure if there was someone else out there that you might have been referring to instead.

I heard a rumor that Hulsey might retire next year, so that will be that last of it.
bigpappa
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 23, 2017 1:41 pm

I am fairly certain that Master Dennis Kirby still teaches in Montana. He used to have a public school; but I am not certain if he moved it to a more private setting. Either way, he is also an Old San Soo curriculum teacher.
Hit First...Hit Hard...Hit Often...and Finish Him Off!
User avatar
San Soo Sifu
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:44 pm
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 23, 2017 1:46 pm

Jason, regarding your video clip, for the sake of historical accuracy; it wasn't Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo beating up one of his students real bad, that caused the lawsuit. It was one student causing harm to another student through a reckless disregard for his safety that caused the lawsuit. Please refer to the following thread, right here...
http://www.americansansoo.net/Forum3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=218
Hit First...Hit Hard...Hit Often...and Finish Him Off!
User avatar
San Soo Sifu
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:44 pm
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Tue May 23, 2017 1:53 pm

Hello San Soo Sifu. In the video I state that one of GMW's students beat up a guy real bad, not that GMW beat up one his students. I was not aware that the person who was beat up was another student, thank you for letting me know that.
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 23, 2017 2:07 pm

I watched again (and listened again) to your video clip; and you did say one of Grand Master's Jimmy H. Woo's students. I stand corrected. I was mistaken in what I thought I heard the first time. Thank you for the clarification. I prefer to be factually correct, and intellectually honest; as opposed to myopic, condescending, and insulting. Traits exhibited by far too many people, nowadays.

Again, thank you for the clarification.
Hit First...Hit Hard...Hit Often...and Finish Him Off!
User avatar
San Soo Sifu
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:44 pm
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Dedicated Villain » Tue May 23, 2017 7:35 pm

Does Richard Dinsmore of Chula Vista teach Old San Soo?
User avatar
Dedicated Villain
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:55 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby bigpappa » Wed May 24, 2017 12:29 am

This is a great time to rehash my favorite story about the first time I used San soo in a real fight. I knocked the guy out with an upwindmill block. Oh yeah, my instructor was a 2nd degree black belt under Frank Woolsey. Unfortunately, I only trained with him to yellow belt, and then he decided to stop teaching.
bigpappa
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:51 pm

About the 1960s

Postby Ron G » Wed May 24, 2017 11:49 am

Jason,
You are doing the same thing now as when you found Frank Woolsey's Red book (the Holy Grail of San Soo); but it is only a few lessons, I have thousands, does that make me tougher or better, no. There are portions of San Soo you have no idea that they exist. You have not studied New San Soo, so how are you an authority? I can show you why the combination is better, but you find it necessary to ask everyone what they think. You can take all the ingredients to make a great stew, but when you mix it with dog crap, it still tastes like dog crap. I can show many weaknesses in Old San Soo, along with many holes. You really need to study and understand something before you lecture others on it. Many of the 1st generation students were hard heads, who believed in brute strength and power; nothing else, but some were smarter. You discuss Old San Soo belts; at first we had no belts, I asked Jimmy about it. He said, "belts are shit, I use one to hold up my pants," so again, understandings are not always correct.
I added this somewhere but it disappeared so I will include it here. In the 60's hardly anyone in LA knew Martial Arts, so as you said "it was proved in the streets", was it, was it a fair fight, sometimes. No one knew how to fight against it as there were only street fighters. Guys like Frank would look for people to beat up to prove himself and build his reputation. Many of us did not respect that, I remember Frank bragging to me how he put a guys eye out in a fight, that is really nice.
Ron G
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Wed May 24, 2017 1:01 pm

Hello Master Gatewood.

The synopsis of the video is simply that there are differences between Old San Soo and New San Soo and that the technique sets in Old San Soo have a longer history of proven combat effectiveness than the new technique sets in New San Soo as New San Soo has not been around as long. How is that an uneducated, biased or untruthful statement?

Your use of the term “Holy Graal of San Soo” is improper in it's implication of ALL San Soo. The term would be properly applied to a person who is interested in the curriculum taught in Woolsey Studio's. To THAT person the Red Book would be the “Holy Graal”.

There is a difference between quality and quantity. In Self Defense situations there are many variables, some that can be accounted for and some that cannot. A system based in simplicity with fewer moving parts will do better than a complex system with many moving parts. While being illogical, as one may believe that while one has more options to choose from and therefore a better chance, the opposite is true in reality. More options only serve to create more variables which fuel the fires of chaos.

You say I haven't seen any New San Soo. In the curriculum I was taught I preformed almost every lesson from every lesson set you have on this site. Those lessons sets are the same lesson sets preformed in “New” San Soo Schools today, correct?

Bearing in mind that I almost completed that entire curriculum AND studied Wolsey's curriculum, not just the Red Book but some others stuff that isn't in the Red Book like Woolsey's Tsoi-Li-Ho (Yeah I remember that page that has that guys thumb xeroxed on the top corner of it.) Factoring in all the aforementioned lesson sets I would say that makes me more than qualified to speak on the subject Master Gatewood.
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Ron G » Wed May 24, 2017 9:09 pm

Jason,
I do not believe you are qualified to lecture the community, if Frank left the system before New San Soo and your instructors were taught by him, who showed you New San Soo. Remember I am not discussing New against Old, I am discussing the combination of the two. You seem to have an overwhelming desire to be an authority but one must put in the time to become one. The rationale of not knowing too much so you don't confuse yourself in a fight does not stand, should we stay in simple Simom land and go to battle with only a one punch knockout.
Ron G
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Thu May 25, 2017 11:47 am

Thank you for your response. Reading it and realizing your making the same points over and over again has revealed the pattern and answer to some questions I have had since coming into this forum. It wasn't what you said that brought me to this forum so much as how you said it.
The questions I have been asking myself are questions based on the things which you continually display on the forum and have been offending me from the beginning.
“How come this man always seem to be disrespectful?”. “How come this man has no tolerance of anything but what he believes in?”. “How come this man is always pointing the finger at someone or something that is incorrect?” “Why is everyone wrong according to this man?”.
When I answered these questions the truth of your nature and what is really happening here suddenly appeared.
Respect, confidence and tolerance. These virtues are not only inherent in San Soo but are intrinsic to all martial arts. Why don't you have these traits? Because you have NOT slammed the mats enough to develop them. It is clear that you are more an observer than a participant. This why you have all that knowledge and yet you really don't get it. The issues you have with me are not really issues with me. In fact none of those issues have anything to do with me. I can't believe it took me this long to figure that out.
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Ron G » Thu May 25, 2017 3:17 pm

So now I am the bad guy, easy answer, you don't know what you are taking about in San Soo and in each case when you come on the web you lecture us (those who have used it in the streets over and over successfully). You have the "read book vid, the 40 minute secret numbers vid, and now the last vid of what version of San Soo YOU think is best. I have wasted time talking to you personally several times and it is plain, YOU DON'T GET IT! What arrogance to come here to talk down to anyone here, if you keep your mouth closed you might learn something. Did you ever wonder how the Master rank got into the Woolsey line, he was not a Master.
And what the hell is a Graal?
Ron G
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Ron G » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:37 pm

Jason,
You show an overwhelming compulsion to come off as an authority, you are not. I watched your exercises, they were OK, nothing exceptional (even if you had trouble finding your horse). I then made the mistake of watching some of your other Vids which are an embarrassment to the whole San Soo community. Talk, talk, talk, when you don't know what your talking about, your mind is made up on the old/new San Soo. Your sly smile, laugh and condescending attitude when you discuss differing views, your training by Secret instructors and that only the good San Soo is taught in private/secret is total BS. When you first came out with the red book you made the mistake of showing yourself doing ?San Soo? moves which were performed very poorly and when criticized you took the Vids down. Why not do a few techniques for us so we could see those superior techniques. Then we come to your BS views on past events, Frank had 10,000 students, he closed down due to the gas shortage and bla, bla. Does the name IRS come up, how about the fact that Jimmy kicked him out. He told stories like learning San Soo in Hong Kong were Jimmy learned which lead to his exit when he did it on the radio. Your views and theories come from a person (you) who believes he is something he is not. I guess it is not important that some of us who were there (and still alive) during ALL the issues and changes, I worked personally with Jimmy to help him in his civil suit. You would rather believe some bozo who told you what he thinks when he was not even there. You also belittle those who worked hard to obtain the higher levels of black and Master equaling your ?black belt? which I question, they could turn you inside out. I have much more to say, I owe it to Jimmy to expose people like you who demean the Art he passed to us, Frank was not Jimmy's equal. Maybe you could open a secret school and teach those secret techniques so they won't be lost. Question, you were in awe when you found the "Red Book", these were basic lessons which most would know by the time they are a green belt, so why did not you know them.
PS Al Rubin was a combination of both old and new San Soo, do you think he knew what he was doing?
Ron G
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:17 pm

Mr. Gatewood please look at the paragraph you wrote above. Every statement you make about me is not about me. It is about you. Is this a coincidence? No - it is called projection.

So in sharing my perspective by putting out videos on YouTube I am demonstrating an “overwhelming compulsion to come off as an authority”? Nonsense. The only person with an overwhelming compulsion to come off as an authority is you Sir.

And as far as being an embarrassment to the whole San Soo community….as embarrassing as say a guy with the status of “Master” trolling this and other on line forums in which he repeatedly puts his opinions across in a non- professional manner. And I’m the one that’s the embarrassment?

Bringing up that I talk blah, blah, blah and where are the videos of me demonstrating techniques…..coming from a guy who wrote a book on the Basic 45 that has no pictures and whose only video on You Tube is of yourself standing over a T.V. in a classroom describing to everyone how yet another Martial Artist has no idea what they are doing. That’s a shocker.

If a person doesn’t like or agree with something I present on You Tube that’s fine. I watch things on TV and YouTube everyday that I don’t agree with. That is their opinion or perspective and that’s fine by me, I just don’t continue to watch if I personally disagree it. But with you it is not fine or OK. If, in your opinion or perspective, you disagree then the sky must fall. Look at this silly bickering going on. Over what? YOUR OPINION. Isn’t anyone else allowed to have an opinion? Not in your world. And lets talk about your world, that cozy armchair next to a computer terminal were you can safely troll everyone from.

I have a great deal of respect and admiration for many San Soo Schools, Masters and practitioners. Many of these people have You Tube videos that I watch regularly. Many of these people demonstrate qualities that I admire. They demonstrate a devotion to the art and/or a devotion to something higher than themselves and/or a devotion to better the communities that they live in. What are you devoted to? If I had to judge you by your behavior on this forum that answer is that your devoted to be a troll.

And why are you trolling me? Is it because I didn’t study in a school where you go to make a complaint about me with Master so and so? NO. Is it because I come from a lineage or personages that you hate? NO. The answer is startlingly more simple than that. You are a paranoid and miserable old man filled with hate and convinced that everyone is a liar and full of it. And why are you filled with paranoia, hate and convinced that everyone is a liar and full of it? Because of your personal experiences over a life time of service in Law Enforcement in which you had to deal daily with liars and people who are full of it.

You try so hard, repeating the same messages over and over again hoping that someone will acknowledge your role in San Soo history without realizing that you will forever be remembered in this art as the “San Soo Wallflower” who honored Grand Master Woo by surreptitiously recording classroom instruction (In some cases lying to Grand Master Woo that the camera was off) and then later selling the footage for a profit (Without permission). After doing this you have the audacity to make the statement ...”I owe it to Jimmy to expose people like you who demean the art he passed to us...”
Look in the mirror Mr. Gatewood. That isn’t my reflection, it yours!
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Ron G » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:55 pm

I would suggest that anyone who reads this should watch this guys videos and decide for themselves. Now we start calling people trolls, I don't play that game. I still say the guy wants to be something he is not, many of us have paid our dues, he has not (but he has a book). Watch the videos, decide for yourself. Please no more calls from San Soo Masters about him, I don't know what he is trying to prove. One would wonder why he wants to play here when he closes the Vids to comments.
Ron G
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:03 pm

Likewise Mr. Gatewood. I would suggest anyone who reads this watch Mr. Gatewood's videos https://youtu.be/uUJ9_8IIRzU and decide for themselves. Additionally please read these post's to aquaint yourselves with further with Mr. Gatewood work: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=343&p=1447&hilit=chronicles#p1447 AND viewtopic.php?f=24&t=354&p=1462&hilit=hypocrite#p1462 You Mr. Gatewood are trying to be something you are not, not me. You paid your monthy dues for the classes but you did not pay your dues with hours of getting slammed to the mat. I am not making a penny off of anything San Soo nor I am interested in any kind of status recognition. No wonder you have no idea what I am trying to prove. As for phone calls from masters....I haven't received a single call or email from any of my instructors or any other people I know who were/are involved in San Soo expressing any problems with the information I am sharing or my activity on my You Tube Channel. Period.
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:00 pm

Just as an addendum to the prior comment, for anyone wanting to further research Mr. Gatewood's work, I did forget to mention that Mr. Gatewood has written a book on the history of San Soo http://kungfusansoohistory.com/ as well Mr. Gatewood has his Kung Fu San Soo Preservation DVD's http://www.sansoojournal.com/ssj-shop.html

To have a complete view, one must see both sides, the yin and yang, the good and bad, the agreeable and disagreeable. This is the first (and last!) forum I have been on. And the only social media I have been on is YouTube. That being said I have said my peice and made my peace with it. As such I will be leaving this forum behind.

I wish everyone the best, including you Mr. Gatewood. It's time once again to return to the land of Senorita's and Margarita's, Adios Mis Amigos :D
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Ron G » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:50 pm

Jason, Obviously The truth bothers you, how many hours did you spend trying to get some dirt on me, if you asked I would have told you. I do not feel bad about getting all I could about Jimmy, I wanted to preserve what he did and said for future generations. The wallflower bit, it is true for the last few years, my job was to document, prior we worked out for 4 hours straight (with 2 pop breaks)I already had worked out for 24 years at that point, but who cares what you think. This started when you put up your substandard vids, I mentioned it, someone else asked why you rocked, oh ya, there was a hole in the floor. I told you to call and I would try to help you understand (I offered to call you back because my tolls are free, think I did once), tried to explain things but you were stuck on big windmills and Old San Soo, I wasted a lot of time. If someone was out to get you, why would they waste their time and energy. You may be book smart but not real life smart. You embellish BS stories, Frank had 10,000 Students, he closed because of a gas shortage, etc., do you really believe those things? You thought you were going to teach us something in your arrogant manner, I don't think you know how to teach yourself.
PS you missed some dirt, when I was 17 I spent 30 days in jail for a gang fight. Let me know if you need more, Now go pound sand!
Ron G
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: Old San Soo vs. New San Soo

Postby Jasok » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:50 am

Mr. Gatewood I provided five links above. The first forum link (If I understood the thread correctly) is a story in which apparently you were wronged. This thread was chosen as it is a positive not a negative against you. Furthermore the second forum thread when opened you will notice that I linked to the end of the thread in which Captain America makes a rather positive point. I completely ducked the beginning of the thread which is negative. Why would I do these things if I were “digging dirt”?

Further more I included links to your book and DVD’s. In your book your research indicates things that you have discovered and believe to be true. There may be some people that disagree with what you have discovered and/or believe to be true. Just because a person’s findings or beliefs are different than yours does that mean they are “embellishing BS stories”?

I have pulled some positive things from this forum. You are right about the very first videos I put out. They were substandard. Those videos were the first videos I ever tried to make and I made every conceivable mistake you probably could make. As a result of comments on this forum I have been working to make better, more accurate videos. And yes Mr. Gatewood in some places (as it has been pointed out to me) I may or do come off arrogant. I am studying public speaking and presentation methods so that I can avoid this in future videos as it is counterproductive to making a valid, persuasive presentation.

A great comment one of my instructors made that I have taken to heart was the comment “I am the best student of my student’s”. When I asked what he meant exactly he stated that during class he learned as much if not more than his students did. We only ever teach ourselves Mr. Gatewood.

I wonder is their anything positive you have taken away from any of this Mr. Gatewood?

Now, I will be heading south of the border where it turns out, after all, I will be pounding sand. :)
Jasok
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am


Return to Video Clips

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron