Black Belt Instructional Books

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Black Belt Instructional Books

Postby San Soo Sifu » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:36 am

James Paul King wrote:Hey gang, it has been a while since we have gotten into a good discussion. So, in light of that, I wanted to ask you folks a few questions that just might help me with a few things. Not to mention get our talks going again.

1) How many of you have used the Black Belt Instructional Books?

2) How many of you have tried, and found them difficult for some reason; and eventually stopped using them?

3) How many of you have questions about them?

4) Are you interested in hearing about some of the cool facts on the Black Belt Instructional Books? You might be surprised!

I have a few good reasons for getting this particular discussion off of the ground. So, please feel free, one and all, to weigh in on this topic. I can use your thoughts, and concerns about this. So, what are you waiting for? Send in your posts about this topic!
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Black Belt Instructional Books

Postby San Soo Sifu » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:43 am

Duane Beadle wrote:From: Numpi 10/4/2002 2:25 pm
To: ALL (1 of 5)
238.1

Greetings and Salutations:

There is a set of Black Belt Instructional Books on:
http://www.kungfusansoo.com/memorabilia.htm

Does anyone know who wrote them? In addition, since there are five of them, do they cover: Ah Soo, Fut Ga, Tsoi Li Hoi, Top Ga, and Num Pi?

I am an early student of Frank Woolsey, Steve Howell, Dave Sword, and Bill Hulsey. I started studying from Frank Woolsey back in 1973.
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Master Carl Lorenzen's lesson notes...

Postby San Soo Sifu » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:46 pm

San Soo Sifu wrote:From: San Soo Sifu (SanSooSifu) 10/4/2002 4:21 pm
To: Numpi (2 of 5)
238.2 in reply to 238.1

Master Carl Lorenzen wrote those books. He took private lessons, along with Master Russell Williams, from Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo. I cannot remember if the three of them practiced in Mr. Carl Lorenzen's garage, or if they all practiced in Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo's garage? You would have to ask Eric Thomson, he would know better on that issue. The five Black Belt Instructional Books cover the years from 1978 - 1982. One year per book. The only thing that would be in those books that compare to the lesson sets from the Frank Woolsey lineage would be what Master Carl Lorenzen calls "Dap Ga" lessons in book number one. "Dap Ga" would be the same as the "Ah Soo" lessons. I know, because I have compared them side-by-side. For further information on this very subject matter please refer to the thread entitled The Compiled and Revised Basic 45 (+ 6).
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Master Carl Lorenzen's lesson notes...

Postby San Soo Sifu » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:47 pm

Eric Thomson wrote:From: eric_thomson 10/4/2002 4:57 pm
To: Numpi (3 of 5)
238.3 in reply to 238.1

The Black Belt Instructional Books are the work of Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo, Master Carl Lorenzen, and Master Russell Williams. After Carl Lorenzen moved down to Lake Forest, California (1977 or 1978, not sure); Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo followed shortly thereafter. Jimmy H. Woo was teaching Carl Lorenzen in his garage, and invited Russell Williams to be Carl Lorenzen's partner; because Russell Williams had a school on Forbes Road in Laguna Niguel, California (a few miles from where Jimmy H. Woo lived). Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo trained Carl Lorenzen and Russell Williams in his garage for about 15 years, until Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo died on February 14, 1991. The books are basically Carl Lorenzen's notes from those training sessions. They were put together with just forms and techniques. Forms were called forms; and the techniques were called Dap Ga (combinations), Fut Ga (entrances & exits), and leverages. In total, there are about 50 forms, and 400 techniques in the five books. I do not think there are any references to Ah Soo, Tsoi Li Hoi, Num Pi, etc., because those were terms that Frank Woolsey used. Master Bill Hulsey got his black belt from Frank Woolsey, and then he trained with Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo, and got his Masters from Jimmy H. Woo in El Monte, California. That might be why Bill Hulsey uses the terms Ah Soo, Tsoi Li Hoi, Num Pi, etc. Also, the forms in these books start out with the practitioner facing West. Actually, they are suppossed to start with the person facing North. It is just that Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo's garage was oriented East to West, and they faced West when they trained in his garage. So, when Jimmy H. Woo told Carl Lorenzen to face a particular way; that is what he wrote down. Afterward, Carl Lorenzen realized that Jimmy H. Woo meant for all the forms to start out facing North, but he did not bother to change it (and many other typos); because he did not want just anybody to pick up the books, and start learning Kung-Fu San Soo. In addition, a lot of the techniques are purposely vague; and have intentional typos to confound, and confuse, anyone who was not intimate with the art, or had a high level teacher to explain it to them. I had been studying Kung-Fu San Soo for about 3 years before I was able to understand a lot of the things that Carl Lorenzen is talking about in his techniques; and I still need my teachers Scott Pemberton and Mark Colby to help me out. I also have trained in other arts off and on for about 9 or 10 years (of training time) before I started Kung-Fu San Soo. I do not know if that helped me, or hindered me. But I was able to latch on to a lot of things that no untrained person would have been able to until Black Belt level, or higher. Shortly before Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo's death in 1991, Carl Lorenzen gave the books to Jimmy H. Woo as a gift. Shortly after Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo's death, Master Carl Lorenzen retired. His only two students are my teachers. My name is Eric Thomson, I am a brown belt, and have trained in Kung-Fu San Soo for four years. My teachers are Scott Pemberton and Mark Colby. They both have trained with Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo (very briefly); and with Master Carl Lorenzen for the last 18 or 19 years.
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Jimmy H. Woo selling copies during the 1980s!

Postby San Soo Sifu » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:54 pm

San Soo Sifu wrote:From: San Soo Sifu (SanSooSifu) 10/4/2002 5:11 pm
To: eric_thomson (4 of 5)
238.4 in reply to 238.3


Shortly before Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo's death in 1991, Carl Lorenzen gave the books to Jimmy H. Woo as a gift.


I am not 100% sure what you mean by that statement, so I am not trying to bust your chops. However, the books were done from 1978 - 1982. I have all five of them, so I know what I speak of. Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo was selling them long before 1991. There was a fellow black belt that trained with me from the late Master Al Rubin, who once said in front of me (speaking to Al Rubin) "I want to get those five San Soo books from Jimmy." This was the first time I had heard of them, and I asked Al Rubin about them. Obviously, this had to be before Al Rubin's untimely demise in 1987. From this conversation I learned of the five books; and then shortly thereafter, purchased the five books via Al Rubin from Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo. I guess what I am trying to say is that Master Carl Lorenzen had given permission to Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo to sell those books as he (Jimmy) saw fit.
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Kung-Fu San Soo 24/7!

Postby San Soo Sifu » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:02 pm

Eric Thomson wrote:From: eric_thomson 10/4/2002 9:10 pm
To: San Soo Sifu (SanSooSifu) (5 of 5)
238.5 in reply to 238.4

You are probably right, Jon. I am repeating the story as I remember it from my instructors. Mind you, they did not sit down and tell it to me all at once, either. This has just been from conversations that I have had with them over the last four years. Also, Carl Lorenzen had a lot more stuff than just what is in those five books. Mark Colby has about 4 or 5 really fat 3 ring binders (the ones' that are about 5 or 6 inches wide); these are copies of Carl Lorenzen's notes (e.g., stuff not in the instruction manuals; especially, different ways to link together forms, and how to use different weapons). I know that Carl Lorenzen was trying to record everything that Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo showed him, in order to preserve the art. I am not sure, but I think Carl Lorenzen made copies of these notebooks for Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo, too. I am not sure what happened to them, but if Jimmy H. Woo had them, then they are probably in a box at Bernice Chin Woo's. If I had the time and money, I would love to just go over everything that Carl Lorenzen gave Mark Colby and Scott Pemberton, and rewrite using Western anatomical, kinesthetic, and physics terms. Man that would really be something! Alas, that will probably never happen unless I hit it big in the lottery, and then give the money to Mark Colby and Scott Pemberton, so that we could all do Kung-Fu San Soo 24/7!
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Kung-Fu San Soo Instructional Manuals

Postby realkungfusansoo » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:10 am

The five black belt instructor's books that many of you have in your possession are of extremely great value. They were compiled primarily by my instructor, Master Carl L. Lorenzen. The first book starts with some of the forms that were taught earlier on. The first 12 of the Basic 45 were written by Carl Lorenzen, and 13 - 45 were written by Russell Williams. The 200 attack techniques were also written by Russell Williams, and were included illustrating early lessons, which I am not exactly sure of their origin.

Books 2 - 4 were written primarily by Carl Lorenzen, and included forms along with Fut Ga techniques that were taught by Jimmy H. Woo to him in his garage between the years of 1977 and 1984. The forms in each book are directly related to the Fut Ga lessons in the same book. Jimmy H. Woo was working through different sections of his Chinese monastery books, and was teaching concepts and series sets, which were cohesive in the principles applied.

Jimmy H. Woo told Carl Lorenzen that the 5 books cover about 40 - 50 % of what was in his Chinese monastery books. The earlier lessons that Jimmy H. Woo taught were other areas within the Chinese books. If one pays attention to the language used in Kung-Fu San Soo in regards to the principle of motion, one can easily see how all the lessons are to be combined, and used together to effectively use the art.

If anyone doubts that the Chinese books exist my instructor, Master Carl L. Lorenzen, told me that he personally saw them and looked inside at the Chinese characters on the pages. I trust his word, and the fact that the structure of the art supports this reality.

The early lessons, such as: Ah Soo, Top Ga, Nam Pai, and others can also be used together with the Fut Ga and other attack lessons.

Old San Soo and content from the 5 books should be looked at as one unit coming from one source, and seen as one whole system that fits together like a language does; using all the elements of the given language.

Understand that the 5 books written by Carl Lorenzen are just part of Kung-Fu San Soo, but they are a significant portion.
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Kung-Fu San Soo Instructional Manuals

Postby realkungfusansoo » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:15 pm

I noticed a typo error in my last post. In books # 2 - 5, not 2 - 4, it was Carl Lorenzen who wrote them exclusively. Some years later Bernice Chin Woo asked Carl Lorenzen to put together book # 6; to include the final information from the private lessons in Carl Lorenzen's garage with Jimmy H. Woo. Carl Lorenzen did not provide that material. Later on Russell Williams wrote a book, which included that information. It has 10 forms, and 80 Fut Ga techniques.

Many people have various notes from different periods in Kung-Fu San Soo's history. My notes from Carl Lorenzen are much broader than the 5 black belt instructional manuals, and covers a much longer time period. I use them in all my classes to provide a more complete perspective.
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