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AmericanSanSoo.net
Truth Telling and American San Soo
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Captain America
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: The SIXTH Magic Sound of San Soo |
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| San Soo Sifu wrote: | | Timing one's exhalation to last the duration of the body's exertion equals power. Period! |
That puts the whole issue in a slick nutshell. It explains it clearly and concisely.
To expand and validate what SSS said: (By the way I am glad there are three S's in your initials; I have had my share of run-ins with the two S variety several years ago!)
First: Think of actually trying to INHALE while performing a feat of physical exertion. Think of swinging a bat, tackling a running back, dunking a basketball, pressing a heavy weight, or even punching Red Skull in the kisser. It just ain't gonna work, to inhale. You have to exhale. And as the Sifu so succinctly put it, the exhalation should match the duration of the exertion.
Second: When a guard or tackle blocks and uses tremendous energy to have his powerful body mass smash into a like opponent, not only do we know he will exhale, but most likely, by straining and tightening his muscles (and I figure if he is a pro NFL player he is straining the proper muscles) he will almost certainly emit sounds, be they interpreted as grunts, growls, or whatever. The striking sounds, be they Yak, Yuk, Yauk, Dik, Dak, Ha, Hai, Hey, Wok , Wak (Yakety Yak, don't talk back) is not something you are likely to hear. But he does his job excellently, nevertheless.
Most boxers simply force an audible, and strong, exhalation when throwing a solid strike. NFL punters and Soccer players (God, I hate Soccer, probably because I wasn't introduced to this incredibly boring pastime until being forced to watch a bunch of Nazis ruin a perfectly good afternoon by chasing a ball around for the pleasure of Der Fuhrer.) probably don't say Dik or Dak, either, when kicking the ball, for that matter. (Maybe they need a San Soo coach and he can teach them how to really kick the ball hard!)
Sounds, when body exertion and proper accompanying exhalation occur, will come out just fine. There are no magic, inner circle, secret, sounds.
Hey, I just thought of a "SIXTH" sound. When you take your opponent's throat in your mouth and crunch down real hard, what sound do you think you might make? I would think it is something along the lines of "Grrrrrrr," or "Rrrrrrrr!" That has to be as valid as the others I have been reading mindless drivel about. If you are going to have a sound for quick punches, driving punches, quick kicks and driving kicks, claw strikes, and throws, then it makes perfect sense to me to have one for the act of biting. (And what happened to lowly joint locks? Don't they get a sound, or set of sounds, too? And would this be a seventh sound?) It may not be the most common of techniques, but biting off ears and fingers and noses sometimes happens. Heck, you might just get a mouthful of cheek (of the facial variety) and decide to dine at that time to keep alive!
I have been in physical confrontations a hell of a lot more than probably all of you combined, and this sound business is silly the way it is being discussed.
Just match the exhalation to the exertion, and any possible sound that is produced is a by product, not the source of, power! Right on again, Mein Sifu! |
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Captain America
Site Admin
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Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| PS: If you look at my picture to the left, you can see that I am following through after smacking down some deserving Transvestite Forum Nazi Moron; and I am still making a striking sound as I exhale. |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: The 100% correct information on fighting sounds of San Soo! |
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San Soo Striking Sounds
I think two different ideas about vocalizing sounds during a free-style workout, and an actual fight should be addressed.
First, the line of thought that San Soo practitioners do not make sounds when actually fighting (or working out); this of course, can be heard by Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo on the Memorial Tape.
I think that when a person is a member of a special forces unit in the military (for example), and the soldier has to silently take out an enemy sentry, that yelling "HA" or "DEK" in the middle of the night, probably would *not* be a very good idea. I know that pistols with sound suppressors, and sharp instruments such as: Bowie knives, ice picks, and bayonets, would be more likely an option, rather than hand-to-hand combat, but it is possible.
I also once heard a story about Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo and another person (I am not clear on the details as to whom the other person was), but I guess this person was either insulting Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo or giving him a hard time about something or another. This incidence supposedly took place around other by-standers, and when the majority of the other people were not looking, Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo nailed this guy (without using any San Soo sounds). When the guy doubled over in pain, Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo then proceeded to act like he was concerned about this person's well-being, and acted like he was trying to help him, and told the other surrounding people, "I don't know what happened to him?" Had Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo let out a blood-curdling yell as he struck his opponent, then Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo would not have been able to play "dumb."
Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo made an important point on the Memorial Tape, which was that sound travels faster than your hands (or feet) do. Therefore, the opponent will react to your sound, and you will lose the Element of Surprise. The analogy that Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo used was if you had a handgun, and pulled it on someone, you would not say, "I am going to shoot you." You would tip your hand, and cause them to flinch. Thereby, ruining your Element of Surprise. What is interesting though, is that I will come back to this idea of flinching.
Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo is correct. The initial strike should always be accomplished with the highest degree of the Element of Surprise on your side that you can manage to obtain. This, of course, is the ideal situation.
But, there is more to fighting than just the Element of Surprise. Pretty much after you hit someone the first time, they now know they are in a fight, and you no longer have the Element of Surprise. The analogy that some others have made in this arena is if you fight someone, roll around on the ground, then you both "pop" back up, and you both have your hands up in the cover position. Since the fight has already begun, you no longer have the Element of Surprise, and leaving your hands down at your side accomplishes nothing at this point. This leads into the whole argument of hands up fighting, and that is another article entirely. But, I digress.
I would like to share some of my thoughts and opinions on this subject (and opinions are free and cost nothing, and that is what they are worth).
I do believe that using San Soo sounds during a free-style workout and an actual street fight are entirely appropriate (at times).
Let me state what I am *not* saying. We (San Soo practitioners) do not make a Karate sound like Mr. Furley from ?Three's Company,? and go into some rigid Karate stance or flowery classical Kungfu stance, and hope our macho noise scares off the bad guys. Not only will that NOT work in 99.99% of real life, but also you have now lost the Element of Surprise. Of course, if you are lucky, maybe the bad guys will be doubled over from laughing so hard at you; you just might sneak in a cheap shot!
However, the sounds in San Soo most assuredly have a psychological impact. First on me (the San Soo practitioner), and secondly on my opponent.
Let me explain the psychological benefits for myself. When we workout, fight, lift weights, or do anything physical, we all realize and understand the importance of exchanging "dead" air in our lungs, for fresh air. We know that when we lift weights, we exhale on the exertion phase of the movement. This gives us added power. We know that when we "bang" away on the heavy bag, we can expel the dead air in our lungs by "blowing it out like a boxer." Forcefully exhaling either through our mouth or nose (boxers usually use their noses, because they wear mouthpieces).
When I free-style workout in San Soo, I make sounds. I usually keep it simple and use "HA" for upper body striking and punching, and "DEK" for lower body kicking (and kneeing). I do not make sounds on every strike, just like when doing forms I do not make sounds on every movement; that would be boring, tedious, and a strain on my vocal cords after a period of time.
By making the sounds in San Soo periodically throughout my workout, it psychologically "pumps me up," and lets me get into the proper mindset and mental focus to obtain the most out of my free-style workout, without it becoming rout.
This always works in a real fight also (for me, anyway). By making the sounds in San Soo (not on the first strike though), it lets me know both psychologically and in reality, that I am in a fight, a very possible life-and-death struggle. No messing around. Could I exhale like lifting weights? Could I "blow it out like a boxer?" Yes, I could. And, I more than likely would on the first strike to maintain the Element of Surprise for the longest duration possible. But, after that first strike lands, all bets are off. Again, this goes to very heart of psychology and the proper mindset and mental focus. Of course, I am just speaking for myself.
Now, I said I would get back the statement of Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo and what he said about flinching.
Even though I would not make sounds on the first strike, nor would I go into a Karate chop stance pose like Mr. Furley (Don Knotts) on ?Three's Company,? I would use sound to the psychological disadvantage of my opponent. Please, let me explain.
Now, while it is true that 99.99% of the population are not going to be too impressed with your Mr. Furley Karate chop stance, it is also true that people respond to certain stimuli, most notably pain stimuli.
What I am about to expound upon is not necessarily a 100% given; think of it more as "icing on the cake," should it work out for you in any given combat situation.
We know that our opponent responds to stimuli, specifically pain stimuli. Our entire goal as San Soo practitioners is to create so much pain throughout his body, that his central nervous system cannot take the pain overload, and goes into shock, and shuts down.
We (as human beings) do not live in a vacuum. Meaning that our five senses do not operate independently of each other. You bust someone in the mouth, and split their lip open; they will taste their own blood. It tastes like iron because of the hemoglobin. Same thing if you give someone a bloody nose, and some runs down the back of their throat, it will smell like iron in their nasal passageways.
If you are giving your opponent a good old fashioned "beat-down" that he so richly deserves for attacking you or your loved ones, then making your loud San Soo sounds *MAY* cause some psychological trauma on top of the physical trauma you are giving his body. Which may speed up the process of the body going into shock and shutting down.
You yell at a dog, and it will cower. You yell at a child, and he (or she) will be frightened, upset, and start to cry. Now, I am not suggesting to go and do these things to prove it to yourself, because they are already proven (and I cannot condone traumatizing children and animals).
Even Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo made the statement on the Memorial Tape about someone flinching if you make your San Soo sounds at them.
I think Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo a lot of the times gave extremely simple explanations, because it was easier on him. One, because of the language barrier. Two, so as not to confuse his poor, dumb American students. Three, because Jimmy was more of a "watch me and learn," kind of guy. And four, maybe because he felt it was not worth the effort to go into contradicting viewpoints on the same subject matter (at the same time, on the same day).
(Although, to be honest, he often did end up giving contradictory information on the same subject matter, depending on who was there, what day of the week it was, and how the planets were aligned. Maybe that is why so many different people, have so many different opinions, on so many different subjects; and they ALL act like they are the only ones with the absolute "truth.")
Look at the first generation idiots who wanted to "know" more from him. They basically had to hunt him down, corner him, and pester him non-stop to get even the smallest amount of (contradictory) information out of him. Perhaps, if anyone would have been able to read, write, and speak fluent Chinese with him; then maybe he would have opened up with more (consistent) information?
No first generation idiot has the intelligence, the information, or the evidence to invalidate what I have written.
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: Because "No" means "No!" |
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In the Rape Prevention Seminars, instructors often teach the women students to say "NO" loudly. It is their "striking sound." Also, in a court of law, if the criminal is brought up on rape charges, the defense attorneys will often ask the victim did she say "no?" This covers the woman legally; because she firmly, loudly, and repeatedly said "NO!" (Because "No" means "No!")
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: San Soo Striking Sounds |
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| Jason Wolfe wrote: | Hak = On a particular hand strike to the neck (chop style strike).
Yak = On a particular straight punch.
Dak = On a powerful front kick. |
| Eric Thomson wrote: | Haa = Used for power punch or kick; and thrusting / pushing punch or kick.
Yak = Used for snapping or jabbing punches.
Waak = Used for clawing or pulling.
Dik = Used for snap kicks.
Hai = Used for chops. |
| David Lorenson wrote: | Haa = Used for long power punches and strikes.
Yahk = (Like walk, but with a Y) Used for short punches and strikes.
Wahk = (Also like walk) Used for claw strikes.
Dek = (Deck) Used for kicks and knee strikes.
Hai, Heh, or Hey = Used for throws and takedowns. |
| Dinesh Gore wrote: | Haak = Used for a straight down punch or palm.
Yaak = Used for quick punches, such as a flat punch.
Waak = Used for claw or chop, anything where you complete the circle.
Dik = Used for all kicks & knees, not just roundhouse or snap kicks. |
| Ron Gatewood wrote: | Haa = Is pushed out by a large gush of air that comes from deep within the stomach, and is felt by the diaphragm. It is a guttural sound, and is usually sounded with your mouth wide open. It is used when a large amount of force is needed. A power punch, a straight-on kick, or a power-type throw. It is a driving force that is open ended, and continues through.
Yak, or Yuk = Is a sound for a snap-type punch. It is delivered in a deep-forced guttural sound, but stays in the mid-chest. It is more like "Wok."
Wok = Is for a claw-like, or pulling in, movement. This is felt in a wide area of the chest, and not centralized; it is a little different, but not much (as to Dik and Yak).
Dik = Is a sound that compliments a snap kick. This sound is felt in the mid-chest running down the throat and esophagus, through the heart area, and into the diaphragm. The sound is high, and somewhat forced. You will feel constriction in the stomach area.
Hai = (Ha-ee) Is used when delivering a chop, but I think it can also be a throw; and is felt in the mid-chest area. |
| David Van Buren wrote: | Haa = Down punch or palm. Driving motion like a hammer; very powerful, think of driving your opponent into the ground. Also for a driving kick.
Yacc = Straight punch. Sharp, crisp, for quick snap. Also includes palm, poke, jab, etc., anything with quick snapping action.
Wacc = Roundhouse claw; works well when pulling your claw back into your center.
Dekk = Kicking. Sharp, crisp; used for quick snap kicks. |
| Jeffrey P. Cornelius, Sr. wrote: | Hak = Forearm.
Yak = Punching.
Wak = Clawing.
Dak = Kicking. |
| Tom Akers wrote: | Ha = Power strikes, and punches.
Yak = Short strikes.
Wok = Clawing.
Dik = Kicks, and knees.
Hai = Circular strikes, gathering strikes, and grabs. |
| Jeff Wood wrote: | Haa = Wider strikes.
Yak = Short hand / arm strikes.
Waac = Claws, and other movements.
Dek, or Dik = Short kicks. |
| Johnny Wheeler wrote: | Ha = Used when driving, pushing; when a large amount of force is used.
Yak = Short arm strikes.
Wok = Clawing; pulling towards yourself.
Dik = Kicks, and knees.
Hai = Chops. |
| James Benckert wrote: | Hak =
Yahk =
Wahk =
Dik =
Hay = |
_________________
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Last edited by San Soo Sifu on Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:46 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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Jim Ralston
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: The Seventh Sound of San Soo??? |
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I was perusing the old Close Quarters Combat Forum and found this response by Ron. I am posting MikeyD's post to set up Ron's reply.
Funny, Ron.
Usually when you post about someone you hate, you tend to lose it a little. But this was actually funny.
When I read it over the phone to the Captain, he chuckled too.
| Mike DeBenedetto wrote: | From: MIKEYD501 1/18/2002 10:04 am
To: ALL (1 of 2)
282.1
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| Ron Gatewood wrote: | From: RonGatewood 1/18/2002 11:31 am
To: MIKEYD501 (2 of 2)
282.2 in reply to 282.1
Sure, go ahead and make fun of Jerry. Don't you realize that the there is real meaning here. Scars new Grappling course will be introducing a new "fighting" sound and when in combat the Scars (seminar and video) trained student can look at his wrist if he forgets that sound. If your opponent is on the ground, you place you finger in his belly button and yell "Gucci, Gucci, Goo!" Ba ha ha ha ha! |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: (Yakety Yak, don't talk back) |
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From the Yahoo San Soo Forum...
| Johnny Wheeler wrote: | Re: Use of Sounds in San Soo, and the direction of the Forms
Hey Jeff,
How's it going?
I agree, refer to J.P.
By the way, Dik is used for all kicks, no matter how we kick.
I know, yakity yak, don't talk back...lol.
Do we have to do the sounds to become fighters, or be able to
defend ourselves. No, of course not. Are the sounds worth exploring,
doing? Of course.
John |
Mr. Wheeler,
I am glad you appreciated my "yakity yak, don't talk back"... observation about the sounds of Kung-Fu San Soo.
To All,
To appreciate the quality biting humor of this reference, please note the first entry in this thread about "The SIXTH Magic Sound of San Soo."
Mr. Wheeler,
If anyone read your post and did not know that it was from an article I wrote, and that you were making reference to The Captain's use of the phrase... I believe what you wrote basically fell on puzzled ears... |
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JohnnyWheeler
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: (Yakety Yak, don't talk back) |
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| I posted the "yakity yak" in reference to the 1960's song; not anything Captain America (Steve Rogers) wrote. There is actually more than 6 sounds! |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: No, you did NOT... |
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No, you did NOT post in reference to the 1960's song.
I wrote it in reference to the song.
You read my post. And posted these words on Yahoo San Soo... "I know, yakity yak, don't talk back...lol." Which proves my point.
You wrote it in reference to my reference to the song.
You posted that phrase because you found my use of it humorous, which was my intent.
Thank you for appreciating that bit of humor/sarcasm by the Captain.
------------------------------------
"There is (sic) more than six sounds!"
There very well may be, but I have seen reference to only five made by Jimmy. See San Soo Sifu's post above.
If you could document additional "sounds" taught by Jimmy, many of us in the San Soo Community would appreciate it. |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject: The Coasters - 1958 |
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You're both wrong. (The song came out in 1958; not the 1960's.)
YAKETY YAK
The Coasters - 1958
Take out the papers and the trash
Or you don't get no spending cash
If you don't scrub that kitchen floor
You ain't gonna rock and roll no more
Yakety yak (don't talk back)
Just finish cleaning up your room
Let's see that dust fly with that broom
Get all that garbage out of sight
Or you don't go out Friday night
Yakety yak (don't talk back)
You just put on your coat and hat
And walk yourself to the Laundromat
And when you finish doing that
Bring in the dog and put out the cat
Yakety yak (don't talk back)
Don't you give me no dirty looks
Your father's hip; he knows what cooks
Just tell your hoodlum friend outside
You ain't got time to take a ride
Yakety yak (don't talk back)
Yakety yak, Yakety yak
Yakety yak, Yakety yak
Yakety yak, Yakety yak
FADE
Yakety yak, Yakety yak
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JohnnyWheeler
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: No, you did NOT... |
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| Okay, I did not reference any posts when I posted to the Yahoo forum. I have been exposed to a lot of music. I am telling you, I did not reference anything you said or posted. I did not, I did not, I did not! You keep insisting that I have. Some of the things you are doing are great; others not so good. What sounds do you teach? The Captain is wrong. You say you are Special Forces. I made the reference on my own! You are more than welcome to call me at: (559) 469-7986. |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuck Cory wrote: | | Ron Gatewood and I had discussed the fifth sound HAW for a downward strike motion; as in palming downward, punching downward, or a throwing motion pointing to the floor. It comes from your center of gravity, below your navel. |
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Last edited by San Soo Sifu on Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JohnnyWheeler
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting. What sounds do you teach? |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I teach my students the following secret fighting sounds of Kung-Fu San Soo... (And until now, never before revealed)...
Ho! Ha Ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
(*BOING* ~ *WHACK*)
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JohnnyWheeler
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ROTFLMFAO! That's funny! |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: Just for the record... |
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Just for the record, the Robin Hood Daffy cartoon was directed at Johnny Wheeler because on another message forum he stated, "I know of one sound that is not mentioned. Ho."
What is the very first sound that Daffy Duck is making?
Even though Johnny Wheeler thought it was funny (see his above post); I guess others may not have a sense of humor. Either that, or maybe they take themselves too seriously.
| Dale Garrison wrote: | | If this isn't fun for you, and you take yourself too seriously; then it will definitely hold you back. I call that having too much ego. Once the ego takes over; you have lost the ability to see, and learn from others. |
Excellent point, Dale!
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JohnnyWheeler
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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What sounds do you teach?
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:59 pm Post subject: "Don't ask why; try Bud dry." |
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Why is it so important for you to know what Kung-Fu San Soo striking sounds that Captain America (Steve Rogers) or myself (San Soo Sifu) teach to our students? How will that change or affect anything that you may do?
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:44 am Post subject: |
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First off... The Captain doesn't teach...
It's enough of a chore to endure the weather in Bismarck... since today (January 30, 2010) is going to have a high of 11 F, and a low of -8 F.
See this weather link... http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=46.8083,-100.7837
Second, I already made it clear in the opening article in this thread, that sounds are less important than the exhalation being timed to the effort put forth.
But for the record, the sounds I heard mentioned at TMI by Robert@TMI were those mentioned by Ron Gatewood, Dave Lorenson, James Benckert, Tom Akers, Eric Thomson, and...
why golly gee willikers.......
the same sounds attributed to YOU... SEE ABOVE POST by SSS!!!
Sorry, no Ho sounds for me... Unless I pay her enough to make some...
At nearly 70 years old, that stuff is a distant memory... I wish I was still a young kid like Robert@TMI who is only 61... Oh well, like they say... "Life is hard, and then you die."
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Captain America
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Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:04 am Post subject: |
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San Soo Sifu...
With respect to a point you made a few posts above about taking oneself too seriously...
Sometimes people are in a fog, know they are in a fog, even post that they are in a fog, but apparently don't really care that they are in a fog. So they sometimes have trouble stepping with both feet, and think only one foot can move... till the fog slightly lifts and then it ain't so foggy.
And their vision is so foggy that they wouldn't see a good and harmless piece of humor if it slinked up their pants leg and nibbled on their private parts... you know ... the fog and all... Instead they completely FANTASIZE that they are being attacked, when even the Captain's 14 year old niece who was here the other day knew it was just humor... (I had to ask her, cause I couldn't even IMAGINE the foggy one, and some of his minions, making such ludicrous and ignorant charges and rants, and was sure my niece would understand the humor, even if she didn't really give a darn about the topic.) And she bore out my certainty that a normal, non-foggy brained person would see the truth. A 14 year old junior high school girl. She ain't no Master of San Soo... but she thinks more clearly, that's for darn sure....
The heck with them Triple S. Like you said, it is just the East Coast Chapter of the latter-day West Coast MJOC... Morons all...
San Soo MJOC people are everywhere... unfortunately. |
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JohnnyWheeler
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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What people say, and what people do; are often two different things. No, it will not affect anything I may do. You have answered my petulant question. Thank you for your responses.
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:10 am Post subject: Recognizing kung fu brothers on the battlefield |
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| Quote: | When the Imperial army sought to recruit men from his area to fight against the rebel forces, Chan Heung 陳享 left his home in King Mui with his wife and two children. Finally forced by the needless fighting and destruction to participate actively, he set up many Choy Li Fut 蔡李佛 schools in Southern China to spread revolutionary ideas against the Manchurians. He gave his followers a special signal for future battlefield reunions: Whoever belonged to the Choy Li Fut system would cry out "Wak" when thrusting with a tiger claw hand, "Dik" when kicking, "Yak'' when striking with his fist or palm, "Ha" when striking with tsop chui and tsang jeung, and "Hok" for the crane beak strikes. These are the original five sounds of Choy Li Fut.
http://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/history.html |
| Quote: | During revolutionary battles between anti-Qing and government forces (1850–1877), whoever belonged to the Choy Li Fut system would identify themselves by crying out "yak" when striking with the palm, "wak" when thrusting with a tiger claw hand, "ha" when striking with the fist, "hok" when using a crane beak strike, and "dik" when kicking[1][19]. These sounds are unique to the Choy Li Fut system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cai_li_fo |
| Quote: | Several common movements have specific sounds associated with them, supposedly so that friendly forces could recognize each other in battle. Certain sounds/calls are also used to force certain breathing patterns for strikes to help with the specific delivery of the strikes.
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Choy-Li-Fut |
| Choy Li Fut wrote: | Ha = When striking with the fist; when striking with Tsop Chui (Leopard Fist, Panther Fist, Stabbing Fist); when striking with Tsang Jeung (a horizontal palm strike to the ribs); (a horizontal palm thrust to the ribs); (palm thrust with fingers pointed downward).
Yak = When striking with the palm (or fist).
Wak = When thrusting with a tiger claw hand.
Dik = When kicking.
Hok = For when using the crane beak strikes. |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: Never Disrespectful?!?!?!?! |
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From San Soo Tennessee | Dave Van Buren wrote: | Im proud to announce that us here at San Soo TN are all morons just like those out on the west coast. I find it funny, yes funny that our intelligence is questioned by a junior high student. I also find it funny that the "voice".. no wait, the "voices" of San Soo feel that we are inferior and we have no sense of humor. The irony is that this image seems to be portrayed by one(s) who hide behind an avatar of a fantasy comic book character. I was 14 once...I was also 12 once. I also had an enormous comic collection, but I gave them away because they weren't worth the space they were kept in and did nothing other than collect dust and make me realize that they were a poor financial investment...and quite frankly a waste of space. Hilarious might be the word that I'm looking for, yes that's it. I go to bed every night and FANTASIZE that I could learn real Kung Fu the way that it should be.
I'm also proud to announce that us here in the land of the lost are never disrespectful to anyone and practice a Kung Fu lifestyle that includes a philosophy of treating people with respect. This is strengthened and endorsed by our friends that visit us from all around the country in our beloved community.
Minions is a term that I haven't heard in a while, at least in regards to something not pertaining to dungeons and dragons or Final Fantasy.
This is something that my 14 year old brother would find amusing.
Cheers (yes, beer in hand) (which is something that should be done by an adult...not a jr high student) to you my friends. (yes, I used the more positive adjective in response.). I can only hope for the day when we can meet in person and have peaceful conversations like real men...amidst all the fog. It's actually quite sunny in TN.
Deepest regards,
Dave (minion #12) |
http://sansootennessee.com/newboard/index.php/topic,100.msg709/topicseen.html#msg709
Dave Van Buren wrote this in response to what the Captain wrote a few posts above about the inane ignorance recently posted on Tennessee..
I submit that the response was done in an insult style. Fair enough...
However Dave VB also wrote in the above quoted post the following, which you may or may not have caught...
| Dave Van Buren wrote: | | I'm also proud to announce that us here in the land of the lost are never disrespectful to anyone and practice a Kung Fu lifestyle that includes a philosophy of treating people with respect. |
Right... NEVER DISRESPECTFUL!!!
As in the whole point of the "rebuttal" to my post.
There is nothing wrong with being disrespectful, per se, in my never to be humble opinion... BUT, when you claim that you are not disrespectful AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU ARE BEING INSULTING AND DISRESPECTFUL, then you are simply being a HYPOCRITE.
At least be honest and say that we will not be disrespectful, to our allies or our friends or our side or whatever but only to people that we don't like... But don't put yourself on that high horse of being above the fray while you pour gasoline on the embers of discontent. You unmitigated Hypocrite... (See, the Captain can be disrespectful, because I don't claim to be some paragon of political correctness or some blind mind numbed robot follower of someone who I must defend even when they are wrong.)
And you are too young to appreciate the word minion(s)... Dungeons and Dragons is waaaaaayyy past my time of youth. But I'll take your word for it that minion(s) is a word used by those youthful folks.
I, however, am using the word minion in the more classical sense where you and your fellow minions are being insulted... absolutely.
| Quote: | Minion: min·ion
Pronunciation: \ˈmin-yən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French mignon darling
Date: circa 1500
1 : a servile dependent, follower, or underling
2 : one highly favored : idol
3 : a subordinate or petty official
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Definition number one fits the bill.
Have a terrific respectful (of the Captain and the San Soo Sifu and the rest of the clan) day! |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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San Soo Sifu,
With respect to Choy Li Fut and the sounds....
JEEZ! Where do you find this stuff? Amazing!
The connection between us and them [meaning Choy Li Fu and Choy (Toi, Tsoi) Li Ho Fut Hung] is irrefutable.
Seems everyone has an Uncle Chan (Chen) Heung (Hung).
And what also comes to my sometimes off kilter funny bone is thinking back to that old Johnny Cash song... A Boy Named Sue." (Well, I grew up quick and I grew up mean, My fist got hard and my wits got keen,... etc.) There is also a common reference to "Siu" also in the respective lineages. As in Chan Siu Hung...
Oh yeah, and five sounds too.
Your post deserves its own thread. This is not insignificant information.
---------------------------
Just another example of all the very time consuming efforts you have put into our forum to continue to provide THE BEST SOURCE of San Soo information and video in the known San Soo universe.
There is a reason you won the Knowledge Contest about San Soo that JP King held several years ago.
And that Dragon statue he gave you... It IS good looking. A really decent prize!
And it wasn't any of the Yahoos or the MJOC on the West Coast or the "minions" on the other side of the country that won... or even the Court Scribe. It was San Soo Sifu who won. Again... Congratulations on that, Sir!
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: Public Apology? |
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| Kenneth Fletcher wrote: | | I realize the “Daffy” reference was in response to Johnny Wheeler. Unfortunately, Chuck (Cory) has seen you go after so many other 1st Generation Masters, he thought you were doing the same to him. |
So, you guys are admitting that the mistake was on your part? It was all about perception. In this case, mistaken perception. That being the case, instead of "bustin' my chops" over mistakenly perceived hurt feelings; maybe you guys should take the high road that you claim so much, and extend a public apology. You know, you since you guys "busted my chops" in public, and all.
P.S. My last name is spelled "Surritt," seeing as how I make the effort to spell everyone else's name correctly.
P.S.S. I already voluntarily deleted my account at San Soo Tennessee three days ago; so you telling me today that I am no longer welcome to post on your site doesn't mean very much (to me, anyway).
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Hit First...Hit Hard...Hit Often...and Finish Him Off! |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: Still spelled my name wrong. |
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| Chuck Cory wrote: | | The San Soo Tennessee Message board has decided that we can do nicely without the input of Jon Surrett and his American San Soo. Go somewhere else to peddle your tripe. |
Still spelled my name wrong.
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kenneth Fletcher wrote: | | Jon your knowledge of terms and Chinese writing is impressive and shows a dedication to learning. |
| Chuck Cory wrote: | | Go somewhere else to peddle your tripe. |
I guess a difference of opinion, there.
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Kenneth Fletcher wrote: | | I realize the “Daffy” reference was in response to Johnny Wheeler. Unfortunately, Chuck has seen you go after so many other 1st Gen. Masters he thought you were doing the same to him. Your reputation preceded you once again. The issue could have been resolved without these other posts. |
Actually, Sir, the issue you speak of could have been avoided if you had paid attention in the first place and not been so quick with the accusations of disrespect when there was absolutely none to Chuck in the Daffy cartoon.
You attacked my friend, SSS, and if you expect me to stand by, well... you know that ain't gonna happen.
You didn't even pay attention to the fact that Jon deleted himself from your forum 3 days before you "kicked him out."
If you wish to go over all the posts I have written in defense of Jack or Robert@TMI, or San Soo Sifu etc. etc., you will see that it is in RESPONSE to the crap others write about them. You will be hard pressed to find an attack that was STARTED by me (or Jon) on this forum.
Such as your clan's attack on Jon in the present example. You may claim Chuck had a hair trigger reaction to a response to the cartoon response to Johnny Wheeler (who responded with appreciating the humor -- see his response above in this thread), but that doesn't justify his erroneous conclusion that he jumped to, with several of you backing him up, to boot...!
As I just said, you will be hard pressed to find an attack that was STARTED by me (or Jon) on this forum. I ain't sayin' it can't be found here (I'm too old to remember everything I have written) but if it is here, it can only have happened extremely rarely.
There has been recent reference to a scientific article pointed out by Ron Gatewood that automatic "response" flows more effectively than conscious attack... the link Ron provided on Yahoo San Soo is this one... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100202193603.htm . We are pretty darn good in "responding" -- as you noted.
As I write this, Chuck Cory posted this at San Soo Tennessee...
| Chuck Cory wrote: | Re: Sounds of San Soo
« Reply #16 on: Today at 09:35:02 PM »
The San Soo Tennessee Message board has decided that we can do nicely without the input of Jon Surrett and his American San Soo. Go somewhere else to peddle your tripe.
Chuck |
1.) Just a few hours earlier, Kenneth Fletcher apologized for misspelling Jon's name, and Chuck cannot spell it correctly either, and
2.) Chuck joins his minions in kicking out San Soo Sifu three days after Jon deleted his account.
The "comedy of errors" continues... and that is meant in the Shakespearean sense in case you wish to google that. |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| David Van Buren wrote: | | John Surritt (Did I spell your name right?) |
Nope. My name is spelled Jon Surritt.
| David Van Buren wrote: | | "Bustin' chops" is an understatement in regards to the disrespect and downright slander you have expressed about others in the past. |
Slander is spoken. Libel is written. Therefore, I could never have slandered anyone. Show me where I libeled anyone on the San Soo Tennessee message board? If I had (and we both know that I never did); then both Kenneth Fletcher and Chuck Cory would never have stood for it. As is the Missouri state unofficial motto, "Show Me."
(P.S. Here's a little fun fact for you; you can never be sued for either slander or libel, if you are speaking the truth. Of course, don't take my word for it... I only have an A.S. in Criminal Justice; so it's not like I have an expert opinion on the subject matter. Oh wait, yes I do... according to the standards the courts use in defining "expert opinions.")
At best, in recent times, I stood up for Master Doctor Ron Bilow when James Benckert insulted him (Bilow), without knowing exactly who he (Benckert) was insulting (Bilow). Now let me make this clear, Dr. Ron Bilow is a big boy, and certainly doesn't need me sticking up for him. However, when I feel someone is in the right, and has been wronged by someone else, then I will speak my mind, and stick up for them. Also, I like and respect Master Doctor Ron Bilow. Must I like each and everyone at San Soo Tennessee? Is it crime to voice my opinion? Apparently, some of you think so.
| David Van Buren wrote: | | Shame on you Sir. I'm truly disappointed in your lack of character. |
Please refer to above paragraph for what I think of your opinion regarding my character.
| David Van Buren wrote: | | And I'll tell you right now, Nobody here is willing to apologize about anything. Nobody needs to. |
| Kenneth Fletcher wrote: | | Apologies for misspelling your last name. ...I will apologize for not emailing you directly after this happened and getting your perspective in a more private forum. ...We should have spoken and for that I do apologize as previously stated. |
I guess a difference of opinion, there.
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Van Buren wrote: | | I still don't see where the disrespect is on our part. There was never any disrespect or name calling going on..on our part. Just simple website moderating by our moderators. |
Sir, just follow the history that is on your website and ours regarding this issue (if you haven't yet deleted it --- and by the way, we obviously have a copy of the posts that we will re-post, if deemed necessary to make our case clear.)
It began with an unprovoked attack on Jon Surritt, when he responded to John Wheeler with a Daffy Duck cartoon making fun of his (John Wheeler's) use of the non-existent "Ho" sound.
Chuck Cory felt offended because he completely mistakenly thought that HE was attacked. Now mind you, I NEVER post on someone else's forum. Jon does. And for years now, you have let him post on your forum and never had any serious issues with his posts. Now all of a sudden, Cory didn't understand what was going on, and Ken and you and your clan go bonkers.
Then I, being quite loyal to my friend and very ticked off by your unjustified accusations, post on MY FORUM a very disrespectful, sarcastic but accurate defense of Jon.
Follow the history of this bi-forum exchange and you will see that I have RESPONDED to youse guys. I did not start the accusations. Wouldn't a reasonable person think that after all the years of Jon being helpful and informative and civil on your forum, that all of a sudden he would attack Chuck Cory with a Daffy Duck cartoon??? I am incredulous that you guys could not follow the posts to see what was being referred to.
And as far as me being disliked by the San Soo Community. What else is new. People have tried to kill me on the battlefield with real live ammunition. And now you hope I feel bad when you tell me that my street cred sucks in the San Soo Community. Your not liking me is truly insignificant in comparison.
Because I was a Captain with the name of Steve Rogers, and Robert referred years ago to Jimmy's San Soo as "American San Soo," I took the moniker of Captain American and Jon and I subsequently named this forum the American San Soo Forum. I've explained this NUMEROUS times on this forum. But I know you often DON"T PAY ATTENTION before attacking.
And if you also paid attention, you and your ilk would know that I don't give a rat's behind about "respect" per se. I do give a damn, though, about what is factually correct or logical or just plain TRUE.
So I don't care if you don't respect me or Jon or any of my clan. Since many of you scream that I am sometimes disrespectful, just know that it is falling on deaf ears. If a first generation master or a president of the United States is factually incorrect, I have no qualms about jumping on that wrongheadedness. And when people who claim to be devotees of "respecting our senior masters and fellow San Soo people" attack a San Soo person (as happens a lot) then I will call it what it is... Hypocrisy.
In other words whether sarcasm or whatever is added to an argument for emphatic flavor or not, the bottom line for Jon and myself is... which statements are accurate and true or more logical or just "makes more common sense."
Follow the sequence of your excommunication of Jon, prior to which you guys didn't notice that he deleted himself from your forum THREE days before Fletcher and Cory told him to go home. Jon was already home with the wife and kids when you guys told him to go home. But you didn't notice that either. (See? I'm being sarcastic, but factually accurate.) Just follow the history of the posts and events, and try to be intellectually honest about it. (That'll be the hard part - to be intellectually honest. --- Oops, there I go again with the sarcasm thingy.)
| Dave Van Buren wrote: | | I still don't see where the disrespect is on our part. There was never any disrespect or name calling going on..on our part. Just simple website moderating by our moderators. |
"Just simple website moderating by our moderators."
Liar, liar... pants on fire! |
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Kenneth Fletcher wrote: | | To the boys who insist on having the last word, because they don’t have the skills or guts to get the last punch or kick. |
Wait, that wasn't me having the last word, was it? Oh bother.
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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http://sansootennessee.com/newboard/index.php/topic,106.msg719/topicseen.html#msg719
Here ya go Mr. Dave Van Buren. I’m gonna give ya the last word.
To anyone who has had the stomach to get this far in the bi-forum exchange, please notice how he does NOT address the timeline or the events or the misplaced accusations on his forum. When substance is lacking you are only left with the insults. | Dave Van Buren wrote: | | ( “Your wasting your time. So, I won’t waste yours to explain my point of view.“ --- Dave Van Buren from the following article) |
I always say, I don’t object to insults per se, but they should be accentuating the FACTS, which Van Buren does not cite nor deal with in this, his final rant… only the ad hominem arguments. And complaining how he feels he is treated (as if it wasn’t deserved!) and presenting that as if it was a wrong thing to do… and then he writes back in the same manner in which he just scolded me for writing… Go figure…
Oh, wait a minute… by commenting on his final rant, before his rant which follows below… am I actually getting in the last word?… Boy, is my face red…
| Dave Van Buren wrote: | Steve,
I'm not going to run around in circles with you. It's pointless really. You always make feeble attempts at trying to trump someone else's posts all the while whispering in your little corner, trying to stir the pot. You never really end. I understand this. You just keep posting and posting, just trying to pick out every little speck of dirt. I won't play your game sir. You have not trumped anybody here and you never will. But I'm sure you'll still try. I honestly don't understand how anybody can read posts from you and consider you an advocate for ANYTHING other than absurdity. You are just entertaining yourself.
You converse with me with such disdain and your tone reflects the fact that you think that I just DONT GET IT! (I'm not the only one) This is completely untrue and quite foolish for you to think so. I know exactly what was written and watched the events unfold as they happened. You dont have to keep up the attempt to enlighten me my friend. Your wasting your time. So, I wont waste yours to explain my point of view. I don't have as much free time as you. You really don't seem as cunning as you might think you do.
I'll be honest. Ive never really followed your message board. It's too cluttered up with nonsense in my opinion. Some good stuff, but more trash than I like to sift through. You seem passionate, as does your sidekick. I do respect that, but the respect comes to an abrupt halt there. i've seen enough here while having the dubious pleasure of playing "chase the tail" with you. You are much too childish and immature for my taste and frankly, just really quite unpleasant company. Not to mention, completely uninteresting.
I will not continue trying to get to know you on a message board. I am done with this and will not attempt to chat with you about this any longer. I'm done with it and will not reply any more. I don't want to clutter up our board here with this kind of stuff. It's not fair to my friends here. I do apologize to Ken and Chuck and everyone for my long winded posts. They will stop here. If you want to respond to me in private email or phone call then so be it.
Hey Jon Surritt (yayy. I did it) Sorry for misspelling your name. My mistake. But you know what? Don't worry. Everything is gonna be OK. Nobody means any disrespect for typing your name wrong. It's not the end of the world buddy. And you guys are not making anybody feel stupid by pointing it out. Honestly, you guys aren't making anybody feel stupid by anything you say. So don't fret it.
Cheers my friends. I wish I could say that it was a pleasure. I still hope we can meet in person one day, and the pleasure will probably be all yours. But I will entertain the thought of an otherwise, far fetched acquaintance.
Good luck in.....whatever it is you do.
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San Soo Sifu
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: Robin Hood Daffy |
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So, me and the wife finally bought a Wii for the boys. We decided to sign up for NetFlix and download movies directly to our television (no wonder Blockbuster Video & Hollywood Video are going out of business)... but I digress.
Anyway, my fraternal twin sons (both 4 years old) got to watch for the first time with dear old Dad, "Robin Hood Daffy."
Now, they both go around saying quotes from the cartoon. Among their favorites are...
"I'll ho ho and ha ha you, fat friar!"
"Yoiks... and away!"
...and of course, the one quote neither one of them will stop saying...
Ho! Ha Ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
(*BOING* ~ *WHACK*)
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