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Truth Telling and American San Soo
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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 Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: What did we learn from the seminar with Ron Gatewood today? |
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What did we learn from the seminar with Ron Gatewood today (1-17-2009)?
Remember this piece of rumor mongering by Kenneth Knapp (posted by KK on Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:07 am)...
WARNING False Phone Call Made to Master Kurt Bellman's Studio
12/09/2008 and perhaps others may have made to other studios.
Folks,
I can't believe I actually have to post a statement like today. In my mind this is a despicable, childish and truly evil act which in my mind was a an attempt by someone to cause friction between Master Ron Gatewood and Master Kurt Bellman's instructors, or perhaps even Master Bellman himself.
A call was placed by an unknown person to Master Kurt Bellman's school on Tuesday night. The voice on the phone was obviously Master Ron Gatewood's voice. But the phone call was a complete fraud. The message left on our machine included obvious excerpts from a call Master Ron Gatewood made to a man who had personally attacked him on a message board (I refuse to post the link here as I do not wish to send any traffic to this site but I have the file downloaded to my computer and will gladly send the link to anyone who emails me directly) and slighted his training and abilities in KFSS. Master Ron Gatewood called to challenge the man to come and face him to end the dispute once and for all. This entire voice file was posted on a public forum that uses the name American in it's title. So it's easily downloadable, in fact I listened to the full file once again prior to reviewing the message at our school after being alerted to it by one of our other instructors. The caller also coughed which was obviously the actual caller trying to mask the fact that this was a recording and not a live call from Ron Gatewood.
The phone call is a fraud but the point that truly aggravates me is someone out there is a big enough louse to edit and use Master Ron Gatewood's voice in such a way. Are you kidding me...?
In my opinion this was a malicious act and truly evil and it was done is a simple minded attempt to try to upset Master Ron Gatewood's plans to host yet another wonderful "Learning with Jimmy" seminar for everyone to attend.
Come on folks. You know who you out there. Grow up and please if you have something to say come down and visit us at Master Kurt Bellman's in person. I consider myself a friend of Master Ron Gatewood's and know him all to well to believe that he would stoop to such a childish prank. Besides if he ever had an issue with me or anyone at our studio he is man enough to phone us directly via mobile or simply come in and stand toe to toe with us to clear the air.
I'm sorry to have wasted everyone's time on this board but this behavior is entirely unacceptable in my mind and cannot be tolerated. Be for warned any voice messages left at your school after hours in the name of Master Ron Gatewood are most assuredly FAKE! Please report any such messages directly to me as I am collecting information along with phone records to report this matter to my local police department and DA. I appreciate your help.
KK
This is the address of this post for those who want to check it out...
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/IKFSSA-Email-group/message/21178
What is the likelihood of that prank call being the work of American San Soo ... When in history has American San Soo NOT said what they want to say, straight up and put out on the forum for all to see???
When in history have we resorted to teenage pranks???
When have we ever pulled any punches with respect to ANY TOPIC that we have addressed??!!
Use some modicum of logic people…
We posted an extremely mean spirited, evil, hateful (and funny to us) phone call message that Ron Gatewood left on San Soo Sifu’s phone message machine last year on the eve of the Bettyanne fund raiser seminar... (Two days before Easter Sunday.) See this link for that chapter in the Ron Gatewood chronicles...
http://www.americansansoo.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=216
With all the direct criticisms we publish about Ron Gatewood, to hide behind the fake call ain't our style... there is no history of any such behaviour on our part... and if we have anything to say, we are always straight forward about it.
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Well, what the Captain has very recently learned is that it turns out, that according to Kurt Bellman, it was Justin Painter, who edited the Ron Gatewood phone call message, and left it on the answering machine...
AS A JOKE!!!
I do not know if Justin Painter did it on his own, or at the behest of Ron Gatewood to create a little frenzy of publicity (while trying to fraudulently make everyone think it was the principals at American San Soo who were the guilty parties). I’m sure that many or most believed that veiled accusation (that the message was left by American San Soo folks) to be true.
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Well, like I said earlier, what did we learn from the seminar today?
We learned that Justin Painter executed the prank as a joke, that Kenneth Knapp, when he found out what really happened, (how could he not, if the Captain found out today also) had a major lapse in his integrity and character, and did not print a retraction of his diatribe.
So there you go again folks… There may be a lack of love in the San Soo World for http://www.americansansoo.net/Forum/ and www.americansansoo.com , the ABSOLUTE BEST SOURCE of information, discussion and San Soo videos on the planet Earth. BUT...
Sorry, we are not guilty, nor have we ever been guilty, of NOT being stand up and straight forward with our commentary, criticisms, theories, ideas, evaluations, etc., etc., etc.
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P.S. To Ron Gatewood...
One of my comrades relayed a lot of good information that you gave to the folks today at the seminar... So, I surmise that an "Attaboy, Ron" kudo is in order.
Last edited by Captain America on Sat May 02, 2009 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: Malice in Wonderland - Yahoo Forum |
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This is what the President of the Yahoo San Soo board wrote in response to Kenneth Knapp’s tirade…
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/IKFSSA-Email-group/message/21182
J.P. King wrote | Quote: | Re: IKFSSA-Email-group: JP Important Post – Vicious, Ridiculous and Despicable Behavior
Might I make a suggestion, let's all just chalk this up to experience
(not to mention San Soo drama) that seems to come just before any good
seminar. We've all seen this before. It always happens just before a seminar
or event. Soooo, don't allow this to be ruined in your mind. Lets' let the
authorities deal with what ever they need to deal with while the rest of us
just focus on the coming seminar/s.
It's funny really, when it comes down to it, it's hardly ever a dull
moment around here is it? Lolololol |
You’ve got to be kidding me, right J.P. THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS JUST BEFORE ANY GOOD SEMINAR!!!!???
How about a shred of evidence J.P.
I hear crickets…
Because this statement is at best a severe failure of memory, at worst an unconvincing attempt at a calculated fabrication.
Let’s see… If you look at this thread
http://www.americansansoo.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=216 you will see that it was Ron Gatewood who left a message on San Soo Sifu’s phone.
Americansansoo DID NOT EVER say anything about the Bettyanne seminar. It was Ron, who in his bitterness and hatred for San Soo Sifu, left a message on San Soo Sifu’s phone on the EVE OF THE BETTYANNE FUND RAISER SEMINAR… He couldn’t put his vindictiveness on hold, even when his purported appearance at the seminar was to help Sharon Wikel’s granddaughter.
Next time you need to get your facts straight J.P.
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TO ALL:
Now that we all know that “the call” to Kurt Bellman’s studio was nothing more than a practical joke by one of Kurt Bellman’s own clan member’s (Justin Painter)… see above post… what’s the odds of ANYONE who threw accusations mistakenly, will apologize. I think it’s almost zero….
Why almost zero? Because it isn’t about truth for most of you folks… It’s about seeing San Soo Sifu (and by association americansansoo and me, Steve Rogers) get damaged, hurt, or put down, or whatever you fantasize and believe will hurt us. If Robert (my instructor from the old days at TMI) was overtly active, you’d still go after him. Oh wait a minute, he isn’t, but you guys still do… my bad.
It isn’t about truth, it’s about revenge.
Don’t get me wrong… I don’t care if you folks want revenge or fantasize getting a good hit on americansansoo, but when you resort to anything less than reason and logic and EVIDENCE, you show your lack of intellectual honesty and sophistication… and even more importantly, a lack of integrity…
Use reason, logic and EVIDENCE to back up your hatred or disagreement or whatever you feel, then that is something substantial that can be given thought to. |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Malice in Wonderland - Yahoo Forum - 1 |
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Paul H. Borisoff…
Okay, here is his latest example of what was posted above about using less than reason, logic and EVIDENCE in a vindictive attack under the guise of an intellectual post.
In response to J.P.’s post above on the Yahoo San Soo board, Borisoff wrote:
| Quote: | http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/IKFSSA-Email-group/message/21537
Re: IKFSSA-Email-group: JP Important Post – Vicious, Ridiculous and Despicable Behavior
You know JP. I need to disagree with you on this one.
It is a day after the seminar which I understand went real well.
Bravo Ron.
Back to my point. We can't keep chalking up misconduct. I am
certain that we all have a good idea who the guys are who continue to
harass the board(s). In general these people are ignored. That is
what has been done for years in the Amateur Radio Hobby. There is
always someone trying to interfere. So they are routinely ignored.
However the internet is a different place. And there are many
differing ways to attack people. We have seen theft and copyright
infridgement. Goings on behind the scene to slander. This costs
money and time to individuals, owners of personal information and
webmaster's who put themselves (time and money) into their work and
sites.
You certainly want your board to be a success. Yet, I see many who
might contribute, withdrawing comment and limiting there experience
because of a few who really get a kick out of screwing up things.
These guy(s) need more than to get a life, thrown out and exiled from
our kfss community.
I seriously doubt that your Grandfather would have had patience for
the "jammers", I think you might rethink your position. In this the
computer age and the power of the computer, these guy(s) are toxic
and evil.
Bear in mind that on the internet, retaliations come in many forms
and in the background. So a hostel response to something said might
turn up as slander or misinfo on another board or some vandalism to
that persons web property.
This kind of terrorism needs to be dealt with. It is beyond mischief.
My opinion.
PB
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Borisoff wrote | Quote: | | I am certain that we all have a good idea who the guys are who continue to harass the board(s). In general these people are ignored. That is what has been done for years in the Amateur Radio Hobby. There is always someone trying to interfere. So they are routinely ignored. |
You may THINK you have a good idea who, but you are/were wrong. It was a practical joke… americansansoo NEVER is afraid to say out in the open what we believe, we have no record of pulling punches!
Ignored? IGNORED!!!??? What alternative reality do you live in, sir?
What evidence do you have that americansansoo is IGNORED?
Certainly that claim cannot be validated by the number of hits to the message board and website. Or to YouTube videos. The numbers are, to the contrary, quite substantial.
Perhaps you mean “routinely ignored” by yourself, Paul?
Or, perhaps not, Paul…
For one thing, you are writing about us. You are writing lies, and fabrications, and fantasies or distortions of the truth about us that do not match reality. But whatever you are doing, you certainly ain’t ignoring us.
And you must be paying SOME ATTENTION TO US, as you lifted a video from me (Steve Rogers) while screaming that we are copyright thieves. What was that about calling the kettle black? (For this humorous – to us – episode in our relationship, see this thread… http://www.americansansoo.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=297&highlight=borisoff
----------------------------------------------
Your hatred leads you to inexplicable fantasy lies like the following (a prime example of Malice in Wonderland)..
I quote you Paul…
| Quote: | You certainly want your board to be a success. Yet, I see many who
might contribute, withdrawing comment and limiting there experience
because of a few who really get a kick out of screwing up things.
|
Here you are talking to J.P. about us… telling him that people don’t post on his (J.P.’s) forum because of us!!!!
How many years ago did San Soo Sifu withdraw from the Yahoo board… You don’t know do you, sir? I did a search at Yahoo San Soo and found that the last post of San Soo Sifu was in August, 2006. The first post of this forum is dated… June 1, 2007.
Are you saying that J.P. was so stupid that he allowed ONLY San Soo Sifu to write evil posts, while censoring everyone else? J.P. keeps a pretty firm hand on what he allows to be posted. The only set of posts that are based on hearsay and lack of evidence are mostly about us (americansansoo) and J.P. lets a bunch of those get posted, but he certainly wouldn’t allow us (or anyone else) to post crap that would keep his readers away like you describe.
Sir Paul, perhaps you confuse the ferocity of posts in the old TMI Forum that belonged to Robert@TMI with this americansansoo Forum? In this (my) Forum you will also find ferocity… a ferocity of reasoned articles, top notch information, history, lessons, and much more… plus a most notable LACK of swearing or other hateful epithets. When strong opinions are presented here, show me please where it is done without some REASONS being given. I CHALLENGE you to find one. If there are any, you will have to look long and hard. This Forum has always maintained these standards.
Please explain your “logic” that the FACT NO ONE FROM THIS FORUM POSTS ON J.P.’S FORUM KEEPS PEOPLE FROM POSTING ON J.P.’S FORUM.
And you said we screw things us at the Yahoo Forum!!!???… that’s just drivel Paul. Malice plain and simple.
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Borisoff wrote | Quote: | I seriously doubt that your Grandfather would have had patience for
the "jammers", I think you might rethink your position. In this the
computer age and the power of the computer, these guy(s) are toxic
and evil.
So a hostel response to something said might turn up as slander or misinfo on another board or some vandalism to that persons web property.
This kind of terrorism needs to be dealt with. It is beyond mischief.
|
First… you said… something said might turn up as slander or misinfo on another board…
Yeah, you’re right there… your post that I’m quoting is the perfect example of what you are complaining about!!!!!!!!!!!! You are LIBELING us, to be precise. (By the way, Paul… “Slander” is the spoken word, and “Libel” is the written word.)
So Jimmy wouldn’t have had patience with us… and “Bear in mind that on the internet, RETALIATIONS COME IN MANY FORMS AND IN THE BACKGROUND.” (remember, just quoting you here Paul...)
THAT ain’t a vindictive hostile response… Noooooooooo. How hateful can you get, Sir Paul. Well all I can say is if you are ever in North Dakota, you are welcome to come and as Rocky said to Drago… “Go for it.”
By the way, an example of a “hostel” is a place where predominantly young people stay on the cheap while traveling on Daddy’s money in Europe. I think you meant to use the word “hostile.”
And when you want to moan and groan about copyright law, while violating it yourself… you might want to keep your arguments on ice… Oh wait you already are… you did say something about copyright “INFRIDGEMENT.”
My mistake.
I like the new word you invented, though… INFRIDGEMENT: to condemn a thought or thing to the loneliness, cold and dark of the kitchen appliance called a refrigerator. (By the way, the word I think you are looking for is "infringement.")
You said that when something gets posted on J.P.’s gets quoted elsewhere and gets criticized elsewhere will make people not want to post on J.P.’s forum anymore….
I can only hope… |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Just to be perfectly clear... |
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JUST TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR...
The Captain may have to make a clarification here… just so there is minimal misunderstanding…
Master Kurt Bellman, by accounts from my contacts, and by my own observation of old videos of him doing lessons (I think filmed by Rick Insley), has a character akin to the moral archetype as promoted by Jimmy. Unlike one of his former close associates, he has kept San Soo true to its roots, and Master Kurt demonstrates a skill level more akin to the “evil” circle stuff from El Monte and his great instructor, Master Al Rubin.
I have NEVER met Kurt, I am simply going by both word of mouth and what I can see on tape. Both of these sources present him as a fine practitioner of San Soo Kung Fu.
I want to make it clear that KURT IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH AMERICANSANSOO or The Captain in any way whatsoever, so please do not be a boorish moron and direct any ill will towards him because he is praised on any pages of this forum.
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justinpi
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Riverside, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: Setting the record straight! |
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Although this topic seems to have been put to bed, I would like to set the record straight on "The Voice Mail" left on Kurt Bellman's studio answering machine. I, Justin Painter, was the one that left that message as a joke to another black belt. I had gone into the studio and this particular black belt made a comment to me that Ron Gatewood had left a message on the machine about the up coming seminar. He added that he always thought Ron Gatewood left weird messages because he never would leave a call back number. I suddenly remembered hearing the message that Ron Gatewood had left San Soo Sifu, and that it was posted on this site. As an inside joke, I went home that night and left a portion of it on the studio answering machine. I went in the next night early, and pointed out to the same black belt that the message light was blinking. Of course, he played it and it was the message left for San Soo Sifu. Of course the other black belt was in shock, and thought Ron Gatewood had lost his mind. After a couple minutes I could not keep it in anymore and told him the gag. We got a good laugh out of it and I thought the message had been erased. Obviously it wasn't, and somebody heard it without the explanation that it was a joke.
So that is what really happened. I want to make it clear that I did not do this as a slight towards Ron Gatewood, or San Soo Sifu, and it was not an attempt to make them look bad, or make fun of them. Although I do disagree with Ron Gatewood on a lot of things, I admire his dedication to Kung-Fu San Soo, and have had several good telephone conversations with him. So that is what happened. It was meant to be a joke between two people, but it slipped out. But I have to say, the look on that other black belts face when he played the message was worth GOLD!
_________________
Master Justin Painter
Kurt Bellman's Riverside San Soo Studio |
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Captain America
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: near Bismarck, North Dakota
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:02 am Post subject: |
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I still hear only crickets when it comes to an apology from Kenneth Knapp. He made incendiary false accusations and never acknowledged that he was wrong or just too lazy to ferret out the facts.
I still hear only crickets when it comes to an apology from Paul H. Borisoff. He made incendiary false accusations and never acknowledged that he was wrong or just too lazy to ferret out the facts.
I still hear only crickets when it comes to an apology from James P. King. He made incendiary false accusations and never acknowledged that he was wrong or just too lazy to ferret out the facts.
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The mainstream San Soo Media has its agenda. That media often jumps to conclusions based on hatred, or sycophantically just goes along with those who hate, instead of looking at the facts.
But that's the way it has always been, and will always be...
AmericanSanSoo got to the bottom of this episode way before Justin Painter posted his account of the practical joke. Why can't these other "paragons of San Soo Virtue" do the same? Answer: Because they didn't care about the truth... only slamming AmericanSanSoo.
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PAY ATTENTION TO THIS, CHILDREN...
Being an old guy (maybe a little older than Ron Gatewood himself) there is a difference in Ron Gatewood's attacks on A.S.S.
Coming from a previous generation, we cite evidence, we show evidence, in addition to the diatribe against each other. Even if we both think the other person's evidence is invalid or weak.
On some level, there is a mutual combat going on. We may despise each other, but let's pretend Ron Gatewood and the Captain were on the front lines in Afghanistan. He may despise me, but his loyalty to the cause of freedom over religious tyranny would allow me to fight side by side with a fellow American Compatriot. (In spite of all the whining he does.)
What I'm saying is --- and this may be a generational thing --- at least there is an element of HONOR in our combat.
And later we could go back to our intellectual feuds.
But some of you other folks, and definitely NOT just the ones mentioned above... some of you other folks are sneaky, intellectually dishonest and untrustworthy adolescents when it comes to truth seeking. Your motives are basically "get-even with-them-ism." On the aforementioned front lines I would not want to turn my back to you... just my fear of some "accidental" friendly fire...
That's your right, by the way. To say whatever you want with no regard to truth or integrity... It's one of the rights I served my country for.
But I don't have to like what you say, or let you say it unchallenged. That's one of my rights.
And I WILL challenge it, and San Soo Sifu WILL ALWAYS challenge it... because this is AmericanSanSoo. Read the Preamble of this forum again... http://www.americansansoo.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4
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